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Quick Reaction: 14x19 Jack in the Box


Do I have a preamble tonight? I don't think so... I hope you have all had a good week! Next week it the finale - amazing! And then I'll get the timeline uploaded, and then MAYBE I'll finally get S13's clothes done.

No drinking tonight, because I had to drive. Hopefully you all forgive me. :)

Let's get into it....

So, the THEN gives us a weird call back to the Empty overtaking Heaven, and I wasn't sure how that was going to play in. 

The NOW puts us in the middle of Mary's Wake... or actually, since she's already buried, I suppose it's a Memorial. Dean gives a eulogy. We find out that at least some of the hunters from the AU are still alive (good job guys!) Then Bobby kills a dude with an axe. Wait, what? 

Apparently one of the "hunters" in attendance was actually a wraith. Uh... so, I get this is like... a fun entrance or whatever, I'm just going to criticize it for a hot second - do you REALLY think it's a good idea to kill someone that people don't know is an impostor in a room full of people who are TRAINED TO KILL THINGS THAT KILL PEOPLE. Like... did someone check Bobby to make sure HE wasn't the wraith? I'm just saying. Now, I'm going to criticize my critique - it MIGHT have given time for the wraith to run away, I get that, so fair. But it still seems absolutely ridiculous to me. 

Bobby checks in to see how Sam is doing, and then asks about "the other one" - Sam thinks Dean is doing okay. But Dean is quite obviously doing his usual "I will avoid talking about this for as long as humanly possible."

Sam shows Bobby some old pictures of Mary, and Bobby asks how she died - mentions that he heard rumours it was the kid. Dean comes into the kitchen then and everyone is like "try to pretend we didn't all just awkwardly fall silent at the sight of him" but they fail - so Sam goes for broke and suggests that they need to talk about Jack. Dean decides that he's going out for a drink.

Bobby then gets it confirmed that it was Jack, and insists that there's only one way "this ends" - and Cas is like "yes, we must find Jack and help him!" and Bobby is like *double-take* "wait what?" Bobby's opinion is that if Jack doesn't have a human side left, then he's ONLY Lucifer... which, uh, isn't how inherited traits work, but whatever. Bobby DOES have a good point that they're usual strategy when there is an unstoppable powerful monster who doesn't know right from wrong is to figure out a way to stop them permanently - with force - and enforced mortality.

Meanwhile, Jack is sad in a warehouse, having flashbacks about it all. He tries to pray to his mom to ask her what to do - and I gotta admit, I completely forgot about Kelly for a moment and when he said "Mom..." I was like "oh shit - is he talking to Mary?!" but then I clued in right away. Anyway, unfortunately for me, and everyone, it's not Kelly that shows up but Jack's hallucination of Lucifer.... which lives up to the Lucifer name by telling him only lies, doing a whole lot of gaslighting, and insisting that the Winchesters will hate him now and that he's on his own. (I gotta admit that I'm worried he's a third right with that last one.)

Just in case we were wondering how Dean is REALLY doing - he's crying by himself on a log in the woods where Mary died. So... you know, that's healthy grieving behaviour.

Cas goes to Heaven to try to speak with Naomi again. Instead he finds Duma, who basically tells him that she blamed Naomi for the Empty getting into Heaven and imprisoned Naomi as a result and took over leadership of Heaven herself. Yeah... that's not good. To further make this not good, Cas basically tells her everything - that Jack is missing, that he doesn't have a soul, that he needs guidance. Duma has a good line about how Jack "lost his capacity for good through an act of goodness" but other than that, she's just like "missing, you say... in need of guidance, you say..." and you KNOW she's gonna use this info for evil.

Back at the Bunker, Sam is trying to find Jack before the hunters do. Dean comes home, and Sam once again tries to talk to Dean about Mary. He talks about how they KNOW that heaven and God are real, so they've got it a little better than people who have to believe platitudes - but then Dean is like "but both those things suck!"  And basically it boils down to the fact that Dean is REALLY bitter about what happened... and I mean, fair enough, his mom is dead AGAIN. But, ouch.

Duma finds Jack and tells him everything he wants to hear - that it's not his fault; that he has a glorious destiny; that if he comes and serves Heaven, he can make it like it was in 'The Good Old Days(TM)"; and most crucially, that that he'll be making the Winchester's happy by doing so. Jack eats it up, because apparently he is an idiot.

Jack and Duma's first stop is to kill an evangelical atheist named Tate. Jack turns him into a pillar of salt.

Back at the Bunker, Cas returns and is like "Heaven promised to help find him" and Dean is like "yeah... that doesn't sound sketchy at all" ... and then Sam finds the Tate death and another rather biblical death. And for some reason *cough*writers*cough* Dean completely forgets about 6x03 The Third Man, where they already were walked through the story of Lot and his wife. Not to mention that by THIS point, Dean and Sam have got to have read the bible MULTIPLE TIMES - hell, Sam recognized lines from it in ANCIENT HEBREW just two episodes ago - Lot and the Pillar of Salt thing KIND OF MAKE AN IMPRESSION. Anyway... whatever.

They figure it's Jack, since no one else has that sort of power.

Duma brings Jack to Heaven (I know Jack is a Nephilim, so maybe it doesn't count - but I was PRETTY sure that no mortal can enter heaven without being instantly killed? Maybe I'm making that up and I've been watching too much of The Good Place.) Anyway, she tells him that his next task is going to be to make new angels. She figures that he can make them out of humans - then she takes him to the throne room and tells him to listen to prayers until he finds some good candidates.

He finds a church group - which derailed my watching for a bit, as me and my friend had to have a long discussion about what section of the church they were using to meeting in, as it wasn't the alter, but instead off to the side by the emergency doors - and that led into a discussion about at what point in our lives we discovered the fact that most large christian churches are shaped like a cross - and since I grew up in a city with a cathedral in it, I won for being youngest when I was actually IN one of those churches, but we both tied for 'had to go to Europe to realize it.'"

Jack sells the Church group on this weird idea of fulfilling their dream of going to heaven and becoming angels - seemingly by putting them into some weird trance - because I'm pretty sure those people meant WHEN THEY DIE and not - you now, immediately. Hopefully none of those people were single parents, because congrats, Jack, you just created orphans. No one likes creating orphans.

The local pastor/priest walks in to give a talk on the reading they did only to discover Jack and entranced people - and when he calls Jack out on his bullshit, Jack makes worms eat him, and it is gross.

Back at the Bunker, Dean has come up with a plan. In my notes, I have the plan noted as "Ze Box"  - basically, Dean still has the Malak Box that he built, and his plan is to lie to Jack that they have a spell to restore his soul, but he has to wait in the Box while they finish it - and then Jack will get in the box of his own free will, and then be locked away forever. In order to accomplish this plan, Dean just needs Sam to go along with the lie, because Jack trusts Sam more than anyone. OUCH.

Cas goes back to Heaven to ask what gives and finds Arameil outside. Arameil tells Cas that Heaven is closed to him, and draws a blade. Meanwhile, inside, Jack is making the humans into angels. Luckily for everyone, Cas is actually heavens best fighter as it turns out, because he defeats Arameil without stabbing him and marches him into Heaven and demands to speak to Duma privately.

Dean has Sam pray to Jack in order to get in touch with him.

Cas realizes what Duma is doing - stripping Heaven of it's mercy. Duma insists that she's saving Heaven and the world. Then Duma tries to blackmail Cas by threatening John and Mary Winchester's resting souls. Cas stabs her... so you know, that blackmail doesn't work.

Jack arrives in the Bunker to answer Sam's prayer. He tries to explain what happened with Mary, but does it rather coldly, and thus only increases Dean's anger towards him (or maybe his anger towards the situation - as we know Dean cared for Jack once upon a time, and I want to be charitable and at least say that Dean is also mourning the Jack he knew along with Mary.) Jack says he regrets what happens, but it's obvious from his town that there's not much emotion behind it.

Dean says that he forgives him for "the accident" though - and weaves the lie about needing to keep him safe until they can make it better. Jack, as Dean suggested he would, goes willingly into the box. Sam is obviously super reluctant and regretful for ever saying he'd go along with this plan - but he's basically being forced to choose between Jack and Dean here.... so he's really between a rock and a hard place.

Jack doesn't last long before he starts questioning why they left him alone in a dark box and don't seem to even be outside of it anymore. 

In the Bunker kitchen, away from Jack's cries for them, Sam tells Dean that he doesn't think he can do it. Dean changes the subject. Sam makes his *I am disappointed in you* face, but it doesn't work. He tries to remind Dean that they're supposed to go for long-shots, but Dean isn't having it.

Meanwhile, in the Box, Jack starts hallucinating Lucifer again - who walks him through how he was just lied to and how the Winchesters intend to imprison him in the box forever.

Cas arrives to tell Sam and Dean how the biblical deaths were a manipulation by Heaven and that they shouldn't blame Jack for them. Dean then tells him what they've just done - Cas is NOT impressed. 

Lucifer continues to goad Jack, and really, Sam and Dean should have remembered that Jack is STRONGER than an archangel... because yeah, that box isn't going to hold him.

Cas continues to be super angry - but is interrupted by an earthquake - which turns out to be Jack breaking out of the box. So, now not only is he soulless, he's also ANGRY.

And thus ends the episode....

So... yeah, I really didn't want them to turn Jack into the big bad. But I had a feeling, as soon as they started burning Jack's soul "just a little" that that's what was going to happen... I'm not sure what's going to happen next week. I assume nothing good, as it's the season finale. But I DO hope that they're able to save Jack in the end somehow. Though, perhaps they won't. :( :( 

I'm definitely interested in what the set-up to S15 is going to be!

Let me know what you thought in comments! :)

This entry was originally posted at https://hells-half-acre.dreamwidth.org/577697.html.


( 17 comments — Leave a comment )
Apr. 19th, 2019 06:38 am (UTC)

Also woooorms.

I have no idea what's going to happen with Heaven. I find Jack's story tragic all round. Can he be saved? If Any of TFW have to kill him - thats not going to be fun either.

also there was a Bob Singer cameo in the hospital. He always looks hobbit sized next to the boys.

Apr. 19th, 2019 06:47 pm (UTC)
Oh man! Good job on clocking Jules there! I was too distracted.

I really hope they're setting up the goal to be "save Jack" - I think that makes more narrative sense than having to kill him. But, who knows... so far, aside from God, there's no way to restore a soul.

Nice job on spotting Bob Singer too!! I'm usually talking to my friend during scene transitions - or writing a note to myself, so I miss stuff like that.
Apr. 19th, 2019 07:22 am (UTC)
No no no. Just no. I loved your review. The part about the Bible refs made me laugh and I hope Dean is grieving Jack's soul too. Otherwise I can't cope. I've been recouperating by watching funny vids for a wile.
Apr. 19th, 2019 06:48 pm (UTC)
Enjoy the funny vids! Maybe save a couple for next week, because I'm worried that one isn't going to cheer us up any :(
Apr. 19th, 2019 10:20 pm (UTC)
Definitely. I will be prepared.
Apr. 19th, 2019 11:47 am (UTC)
Thank your for this reaction! There are no subtitles where I usually take them and I'm afraid that I missed a lot. (

> Then Bobby kills a dude with an axe.

- I swear two seconds before I paid attention! )) I was like "hmm this dude doesn't drink, doesn't even have a bottle, strange..." Though didn't think "What's wrong with him?"

Now I can't wait to see the finale. Jack with those bright eyes feels like a cliffhanger, and I don't want this scene to turn into something like "duh, he just disappeared again, we don't know where". Want somthing big. )
Apr. 19th, 2019 06:51 pm (UTC)
The hilarious thing about that axe scene for me was that I was having the opposite thoughts to you - "Oh look, he's not drinking - how nice that there's no pressure to drink amidst this hunting community"... I think it's because I've got a few friends who don't drink, and so I end up in a lot of discussions about how many social customs revolve around alcohol and how annoying that is. And then Supernatural goes and ruins by optimistic reading of the situation by axing that guy in the head because CLEARLY there was something strange about him. :P

I'm hoping he'll at least yell at them before he disappears - but I'm sure he's going to disappear at SOME POINT, because I'm not sure they could have 42 minutes of just that scene continued. They have to be able to regroup and acknowledge their mistakes and then come up with a new strategy.
Apr. 21st, 2019 12:49 pm (UTC)
No, yes, I agree. This alcohol preassure is really annoying, but this wraith guy with his folded arms really stood out somehow...

And about Jack - yes, some words would be nice!
It's just they just have a bit dissappointing tendency to end promising scenes in two seconds. ))
Apr. 19th, 2019 12:43 pm (UTC)
Best part of the episode: Cas stabbing Duma after she threatens John and Mary. Finally someone just took the bad guy out promptly!

Second best--tie: Dean struggling to contain his grief in public and breaking down alone and Sam fighting his guilt about deceiving Jack--their faces were just so broken...

BTW this was the scene Jensen talked about at a con filming at night in a miserable cold rain and he asked Singer why couldn't they film him sitting in the car, and Singer said it wouldn't be cinematic. It felt to me like it should have lasted just a little longer, though, it cut off too soon...

And the end with Jack wreathed in smoke, just a silhoutte with red eyes...if I were the Winchesters, I would be going 'Oh shit, shit, shit!'
Apr. 19th, 2019 06:52 pm (UTC)
Yes! I loved Cas stabbing Duma - hard to blacksmail someone when you're dead.

And yes, I remember Jensen talking about this scene. I can definitely understand why it was NOT a favourite scene of his to film. :P

I'm pretty sure if we could peer into the minds of the Winchester's, that's exactly what they'd sound like during that final scene. ;)
Apr. 19th, 2019 09:51 pm (UTC)
Dean's crying scene felt way too short and did seem to end abruptly - but Jensen was convincing! Poor Dean...
Apr. 19th, 2019 09:49 pm (UTC)
Sooooooo many things wrong with this episode but then this season is full of ugh so this was no different I suppose. I mean didn't AUBobby and Mary have a thing? You'd have thought he'd have been a tiny bit more upset about her death than he was. I'm surprised all my handwaving didn't cause a hurricane somewhere.

But basically, I'm sharing your hope that this isn't the end for Jack - he's been one good thing about the season.
Apr. 19th, 2019 10:16 pm (UTC)
Yes, there seems to be too reactions I can have to an episode by BuckLeming - either too many rants, or I just sort of... do what I did above. "This is the episode - to each their own thoughts" :P
Apr. 22nd, 2019 09:16 pm (UTC)
First--in the "before", where they were showing Lucifer's death, I realized that I had watched some of the episodes when Dean had the Mark of Cain this week...and I wondered if the Winchester "thing" about Lucifer's death being over the top is because of the way Dean acted with the Mark of Cain. It just seemed that maybe their worry is that they were worried that this can only escalate.

Which doesn't really matter, I guess, but I had to share it somewhere.

I still don't get the soulless thing. It's just not consistant! The kid who lost half his soul way back in season...5?...was okay, but has some issues. Sam was fairly normal except he was extremely practical and self-centered. That guy in the Lizzie Borden episode could reason out what his motivations should be, but seemed to have lost all his emotional connections. Our prophet seems perfectly fine in all ways, but he has to think about how a "normal" person would react. But Jack seems to be kind of stupid. (sorry! I do think it's the writers fault.) He was connected to Mary too, I just don't understand why he would still be seeking approval from Sam and Dean and Cas but calling killing Mary "the accident". I would think he would be less blase and more apologetic. Even soulless, it seems he would be selfish enough to be sorry that she's not in his life anymore because HE needsed her too. Enough so that he wouldn't just piss off the boys the way he did, anyway.

I wasn't happy with this episode because it didn't feel like it was well reasoned. I blame the writers. Because (for my positive portion of this comment) it was well acted. There were some really good bits from everyone...especially Jensen and Jared.
Apr. 22nd, 2019 10:24 pm (UTC)
I'm not sure I understand your first paragraph. Or, rather, I know that I don't understand. So, if you could explain what you're talking about, that would be cool! Otherwise, I'll just nod and say "Yes, that could be it." Because that's still true whether or not I understand.

I'm also not sure what kid you're talking about in S5? Or whatever season it was. We had the cambien in S5, but he was a half-demon/half-human, so I don't think that's the same as soulless Nephilim, because he still had his human soul. I know that people talk about "halves" of Jack, but it wasn't that he had half a soul to begin with, he had a full soul - and now it's completely gone.

BUT, that being said, I do agree that the reactions to being soulless have been a little inconsistent. Some humans seem to just straight away go be like "WELCOME TO MURDER TOWN!" and other people just no longer have empathy or morals, but still have logic and can therefore arrive at moral decisions LOGICALLY - like Donatello. Just because they can't FEEL when something is right or wrong, doesn't mean they don't KNOW it. Like, Jack KNEW that accidentally killing Mary was a very bad thing. Perhaps, though, he can no longer feel his connection to her, so it's not as huge a loss to him - because it's only a loss of strategy/needs.

BUT... THAT being said... yeah, this episode was written by the two worst writers when it comes to understandable in-character emotional reactions, and it shows. There's only so much the actors can do to elevate things.

So, as you say, everyone did a really great job with what they had - and it's certainly setting up for an interesting season finale and lead-in to S15... but there were a few holes.
Apr. 22nd, 2019 11:37 pm (UTC)
lol...my computer is being very annoying about correcting my typing. I'm not surprised it was incomprehensible!

It occurred to me when I was rewatching the episodes where Dean had the Mark of Cain and was unable to control his violent reactions, that there may be a connection between his violence and the Winchesters' current reaction to how Jack killed Lucifer.

Mary wasn't there, but I'm assuming they told her the whole Mark of Cain story. So perhaps her reaction to Jack's kind of excessive violence while killing Nick was because she knew that Sam and Dean would worry that it was something that would escalate if he lost control. I don't know...it made sense at the time!

The kid who had half a soul...I'm terrible with episode titles! I actually went and looked it up...THe THird Man, season 6. It wasn't an episode I loved, so I think I've only seen it a couple times. Anyway, there's a kid who sells his soul to get Moses Staff, which he uses to kill the police officers who killed his brother? I think? Anyway, he has no soul, or only part of a soul, and he still seems to have all his emotions and morals. I think Cas ends up giving him part of his soul back? Or maybe he tries, and it doesn't work. Like I said, I only saw it a couple times. But what I remember is that he was pretty normal, and it was only after Cas stuck his hand inside the kid that they even knew he was missing his soul at all.

I still think they need someone to keep track of their show history and consult on the scripts before they're filmed!
Apr. 23rd, 2019 12:01 am (UTC)
Ah! Okay, that makes sense. I could see that being the case for why the Winchesters might be worried about Jack's violent tendencies accelerating. I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that Mary would have the same response, since she wasn't there. I think that sort of thing is more an instinctual/subconscious response, rather than a reasoned one.

I think it's more a case of the death just not being filmed in a way where the AUDIENCE had the same reaction as Mary/Sam/Dean. Maybe they needed to have Jack kills someone less hated (but still a bad guy) or have Nick beg for mercy more and Jack deny him it, etc. But yeah, I know you're trying to come up with an "in show" reason, rather than a "production mistake" reason... but I think that maybe it can be both? Like, we can believe that for whatever reason, the brutality of Jack killing Nick didn't translate the way it should have to the audience - but that Mary's reaction was justified, even if we didn't share it.

And OH MAN, I completely forgot about that kid! It was S6. I can't remember what happened to him either. I think he was fine, and they just left him to sleep it off?

But yeah, half a soul is still better than no soul. :P

( 17 comments — Leave a comment )


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