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You get an icon of Braeden from Teen Wolf this week, because I don't have any Mary or Jody icons - obviously, this is something that needs to change. If anyone has any links, let me know (do people even make icons for LJ anymore?!)

I'm feeling under the weather today. So I didn't go to my friend's place for dinner/wine/show like usual. Instead I stayed home, skipped dinner (though I should probably not to that, so I'll eat after I type this up) and relied on downloads... which thankfully did not fail me.

So, let's hope that my wit isn't dependant on my alcoholism or my health, because I fear I have neither at the moment.

I've still only watched the episode once, while taking very poor notes....

LET'S DO THIS!

THEN - is reminding us of Mary, and how Sam and Dean like hunting now, but Mary always tried to get away from it. And then we're reminded that demons exist... and that Dean has feelings.

NOW - it's not now! It's 1980! In CANADA!!!

Emerson, Manitoba, to be exact - and, well, it'd have to be Eastern or Northern Manitoba, if you wanted forests... and even then, those trees are a little too large, but BC can only do so much, and it has a hard time growing anything but temperate rainforests. But Emerson is south, right on the border, in mostly flatland, and the only trees are right along the Red River... and... I suddenly understand what it's like for Americans watching this show "That's not at all what St. Louis looks like!" Hahaha

I will say that later in the show they do manage to get a shot of the Impala driving someplace that looks ALMOST prairie like - so that's nice. Anyway... I'm jumping ahead.

Little boy is running through the woods from a werewolf, gets scratched on the cheek, and is about to be killed when he's saved by Mary! And she's wearing a "Canadian tuxedo" to try to blend in with the locals (ie: all denim") or, it's to show that they are in the 1980s... either way, nice wardrobe choice.

But why was Mary hunting in 1980! Dean was a BABY... like, he'd be 1 year old. Mary answers this for us - she was finishing up business and had been tracking that werewolf for a long time. So, interesting? A failed hunt from her pre-John days?

Then Asa's room is hilariously OTT Canadian - he's got not one, but TWO mountie statues. One of which is a moose... and a picture of a hockey player pinned up on his bulletin board. I'd be offended if I didn't love it so much.

So, Asa, inspired by Mary, becomes a little Canadian hunter, who likes the ladies. Awwww... until he reaches adulthood and DIES HORRIBLY!

And then we return to the present time, in Sioux Falls, and we see Jody!! She has a day off and is going to kick back with some Netflix, when there is a knock on the door, and it's the Winchesters! Yay!

They're smelly and just coming off a hunt in Brookings (?) and they want to hang with Jody and the girls. The girls, though, are off in Omaha seeing Radiohead (JEALOUS!.. of Radiohead, not Omaha).

Then we find out that Dean really just came over to brag about killing Hitler. I loved Jody's "Thank you?" and Dean's sincere "You're welcome." Because honestly, how DO you respond to someone telling you that they killed Hitler?!

They watch a chickflick, which Dean has a problem with, because he didn't think Jody was one of THOSE chicks, he thought she was an asskicking-no-chickflicks-chick... Dean, Dean, women contain multitudes. Sam throws Dean under the bus by bringing up the fact that Dean's an "animated Japanese erotica chick" and has a laugh at him while Jody gets interested. Then the phone rings and Jody goes to get it... and Dean is like "Don't tell her that!" because, seriously, it's not cool to share other people's porn preferences without their permission, Sam. But Sam just digs in - "It's Jody", because he knows Jody is sex positive and cool. And also he likes making fun of Dean, "be proud of your hobbies."

Seriously, I could watch a whole episode of them shooting the shit at Jody's.

But, it's not to be - because the phone call was someone telling Jody that Asa was dead. She's upset about it, because he was a friend - even though Jody only met him "a couple months back", they had met up a few times since then.

Dean's heard of him - because supposedly there's a story where Asa kills 5 wendigos.

Dean and Sam decide to tag along to the wake, because they've never been to hunter gatherings outside of bars, because their Dad told them it wasn't safe or a good idea or words to that affect. And MAN, how I love the continuity of that detail, because when they were kids - and through all the early seasons - and even probably in some respects now - it really WASN'T safe for Sam to be around Hunters... and John KNEW. I just... love that. Though, these days, as we'll see, the Winchesters are passing more into legend (which I also love and will talk about) and I think hunters aren't as quick to think they can take them on, even if they do have a beef with them.

Jody tells them that they better clean up if they're going to spend 5 hours in a car together - and that's when they find out they're going to Canada for the first time ever!! (Outside of that time they were shoved into a parallel universe by Balthazar).

Turns out that Hunter wakes are a lot like bars anyway, so Dean and Sam weren't missing much by never going to one before.

Asa's mother is there and miserable about her son being dead (understandable). I was SUPER suspecious of her though, because she looked WAY too good to be Asa's mother. I was sure there was going to be some reveal that she was a witch or immortal or something of that sort. Turns out, it's just casting choice. (Spoiler alert! Haha... for those of you who stopped watching the show but still read my meandering recaps.)

In the kitchen, Dean finds the beer. It's unlabeled because it's homebrew. Ah, Canada... I know it's becoming increasingly popular in the states too though. Dean introduces himself to the beer guy, and that's when the room goes silent at the name Dean Winchester - and Dean discovers that he's famous - mainly for dying "what like 4 times now?" "Yeah, didn't stick." And then another Hunter is like "wait, is SAM here? And runs off to find him, very much fanboying... which is refreshing, because he could be like "we must kill the antichrist!" which Sam HAS gotten before, more than once.)

We find out that the fanboy is Elvis. The beer dude is Bucky Sims. (Are people really named Bucky in this world? I thought that was just a weird Captain America thing?) and then there's Randy Bull, who makes a bad joke about his own name, so... which, you know, yeah, might as well say it first to get it out of the way when you have a name like that. It's a strategy.

Bucky goads Dean into telling him what stories he's heard about Asa, and as soon as Dean mentions the 5 Wendigos, everyone drinks. Apparently, the drinking game is Wendigo.

And basically, Dean finds out that just like he's heard stories about Asa without ever having met him. Everyone else has heard stories about Dean.

Meanwhile, in the living room, Sam is chatting with two UNFAIRLY ATTRACTIVE people, who are siblings (and might be twins?) They were raised by a witch, but were raised to be hunters and kill bad witches, in a weird twist. Or, the girl was taught to be a hunter, and the boy was taught to seduce men... which, you know, I approve, though I kinda wish he were real and Bi/Pan, not Gay, so that I'd have a chance.

Elvis comes into the room then, linking the two conversations in time, and we find out that his name is Elvis Cats. (Asa Fox, Elvis Cats, Randy Bull... I didn't catch the hot siblings names... let me check the wiki - Alicia and Max Banes... okay, doesn't fit the animal them. Neither does Sims.)

Elvis heard from a friend who heard from Garth that Sam was once possessed by Lucifer - and he straight up asks if it's true. And the siblings are like "Dude, you just don't ask something about something that messed up!" Elvis tries to press that it's interesting or amazing or something. Sam tries to play it cool "It is what it is" but then he totally runs away. The witch hunters are not impressed with Elvis' manners and tell him to go away when he tries to get comfy on the couch with them. And I agree. I'm sure the Banes siblings had heard the stories as well, but had the good graces not to ask about it.

Sam finds Dean snooping around and asks him if he was aware that there were stories about them both. Sam seems surprised - which is surprising to me, because dude, you both started and stopped the apocalypse! TWICE! Do you really think word wouldn't get around?!

This somehow leads them into a conversation about Asa...and Dean talks about how he died on the job, and how there's no better way to go. Sam disagrees - because there's dying peacefully in your sleep - but Dean is adament as usual, that hunting only ends bloody and sad. As usual, Sam is perturbed by this pronouncement. Ah, my favourite pessimist and optimist, united in siblinghood forever.

The party/wake winds down, and most guests leave - so it's just the ones we have names for already. How CONVENIENT.

We find out that the reason that Jody was so attached to Asa was because they were casually sleeping together, at least once, anyway - but possibly whenever he happened to "drop by" after that. Aw, Jody... all your romantic endeavours end in tragedy.

Randy goes off to get more beer for people, and then on his way back gets his throat slit - by ALICIA! And I am CONFUSED!

And then our final guest arrives for the night - and it's Mary, come to pay her respects to Asa.

Sam and Dean pull Mary aside in the hallway, and she gets introduced to Jody, and the fact that she's their mother is revealed. Jody is flabbergasted but thrilled for them, and gives Mary a big hug... and then realizes that the atmosphere of the room is actually quite awkward and excuses herself.

Dean is all like "where have you been?" trying for casual, but being passive agressive... or perhaps just flat out trying for passive agressive, because once he's there, he embraces it. Mary has been traveling and using John's journal to retrace some things and catch up on what she's missed. All her friends are dead, but she remembered Asa and decided to look him up... only to find out he was dead too, so she came up for the wake.

We find out that Mary has been sending texts MAYBE once per week. Dean is upset because she'll only text him occasionally, but she'll drive all the way to Canada for a wake. (I would like to point out that Emerson is LITERALLY ON THE BORDER. Like.. you can stand in Emerson and spit into Minnesota.)

Dean storms off, but Sam prevents Mary from chasing after him.

Meanwhile, Jody catches Dean at the door, before he leaves, and does her usual check-in. She points out that she KNOWS he's not dealing well because he spent 5 hours in the car telling her how he killed Hitler, but didn't once mention that his mother is back from the dead. Then she pulls out the big guns and tells him that she would give anything to have her husband and son back, but that she knows it would scare the hell out of her if it happened, because what if they've changed, or what if Jody has changed. So, she understands Dean's jumbled head/feelings right now. Really, Jody is too awesome in general, so I started fearing for her life tenfold here.

Asa's mother introduces herself to Marry (her name is Lorraine), and then when she realizes who Mary is, blames her for Asa's wasted life and his death, because she was he one that inspired him to hunt. But it's hardly Mary's fault, geez. She knew him for a half hour at most.

Sam checks in with Mary, and reassures her of what I just said - Asa made his own decisions, and he helped people. Mary admits that everywhere she goes, it just feels wrong. Sam is TOTALLY emotionally competant and handles this well, and then tells her that Dean is just having a hard time with her leaving them, because he knows that Mary wanted out of Hunting, and he's scared that because he and Sam are hunters, she's going to walk away from them completely. But then Sam points out that he knows that's not the case, because Mary met Asa in 1980 (and seriously, when did he even read those postcards that quick? Or just the first one?) AFTER she had technically retired... so, he knows that she couldn't stay away from Hunting either. That it was "in our blood."

Which... I'm not sure I like, because isn't a LOT of this show about Free Will and how it's totally a thing and you can decide what you want to do with your life regardless of your manipulated upbringing?!?!  So, I'm wondering if this is going to come back around, or if this is just the one pre-determinded thing that their going to hang on to.

Then Sam and Mary go to check out the body, and they BOTH have what will totally be a PTSD triggering experience of seeing blood drip on Asa's forehead, because Randy is tied to the ceiling beam. Or... well, Sam will have the PTSD. Mary will have a really weird reverse form of it. :P

Sam quickly marches back into the other room and tells everyone that they have to get out of the house, because Randy is dead.

Bucky jumps in with the suspect - a crossroads demon named Jael, that Asa exorcised years before. Apparently exorcisms only last 5 years or so, before the demon gets topside again? I forget if it's Bucky or Sam who says that, so, not sure if we can trust that info.

Everyone is trapped in the house though, and Dean is trapped outside, drinking from his flask, oblivious to the peril happening behind him. Max Banes can do the same cool magic hand trick that Cas can do, where he reveals the warding preventing the door from opening.

Until, that is, Billie arrives and tells him that she just reaped someone in the house.

Inside, we get the history - Jael killed a First Nation's girl in Yellowknife while Asa was forced to watch. We also find out that the water is turned off.

Outside, Dean accusses Billie of killing whoever it was - but Billie reminds him that there are rules, and she only reaps, she doesn't kill.

Meanwhile, it's revealed that Alicia is indeed the possessed one - but Jael quickly bails on that meatsuit and flees upstairs.

Jody quickly organizes people by pairs to search the house for the demon. Sam pairs up with his mum.

Outside, Dean asks Billie for passage inside, since he knows she can go in and out. Billie agrees, but says that he'll owe her one. Sounds sketchy to me, but then, Reapers are lawful neutrals, so it's not as sketchy as a demon deal, so Dean takes it.

I love the glowing door and Dean falling through into the hallway, then rolling to his feet and getting immediately to business. It's a shame it was only Elvis and Lorraine in the hallway, because I feel like if the Hunters wanted stories about Dean Winchester, that would be right up there. Especially since Dean's answer to "how did you-" is "It was a one time deal, won't happen again!"

Elvis won't even live to tell the tail though, because it turns out he's the possessed one, and before the demon leaves, it snaps his neck. The VFX here were a little... too noticable for me, especially on the lingering shot of the body. I think the initial twist and then having the body fall differently would have been better.

Oh, but before Elvis died, he tells us that Hell is a trainwreck, now that both Lucifer and Crowley are missing.

The group reforms and a plan is quickly put in place... involving a devils trap that they can test people with. Max asks Sam about what sort of devil's trap he likes to use, and Sam is like "this is a weird conversation" but I totally saw it as a conversation someone would try to start up with someone they're very very silently fanning over. (Is there a gender neutral form of fanboying/girling?). It's either that or he's trying to show off, but I still think it's in a way that you show off when you're trying to impress, rather than belittle.

Mary breaks off and goes snooping with purpose - to get the angel blade! But it DOES look shady.. so when Mary comes back into the room, I didn't blame Jody for thinking that she might be possessed and telling Sam.

But then Jody is WAY too insistent and gets screechy about it - and so it's discovered that JODY is the one that is possessed, and that is JUST AS HORRIBLE.

Especially since Mary immediately tried to kill her, slicing her arm - though she's stopped by Sam, who is like "goddamn mom, don't kill our friend!" only with his eyes.

Jael is frustrated that they couldn't get Sam and Dean to kill their mum, so s/he pins everyone to the floor.

Then Jael/Jody goes on a big rant. Interestingly, she doesn't know whether the Lucifer thing is true or not - but says that if it's true, it's fascinating that he left a meatsuit alive, since it shows weakness or something? And then Jael just decides to reveal everyone's secrets - the twins are Asa's kids (awww!), Asa's mother was constanly sabatoging his car, weapons stash, in an effort to get him to stay home and not hunt. And finally, Jael gets Bucky to confess that BUCKY KILLED ASA.

The Hunters meanwhile, have been doing a round-robin exorcism, with Mary delivering the final words that send Jael back to Hell and save Jody.

But Bucky has still confessed... so that sucks for him.

We find out that they got into a stupid argument in the woods, when chasing Jael, and Bucky pushed Asa, accidentally tripping him and sending his head into a rock, killing him instantly. Then he hung Asa to disguise the accidental murder as a Jael killing. Sucks to be Bucky.

The Hunters decide his punishment will be that THAT'S the story they'll spread about him in the Hunting community - how he accidentally killed his best friend and then framed a demon for it. I think that's a little harsh, since for me, killing my best friend would be punishment enough... but, I get that what they're really punishing him for is the lie that came after, and the poor treatment of Asa's body. And yeah, I can see that. If you accidentally kill your BFF, folks, just fess up, or you'll lose the respect of your entire community.

The next morning, there's a 3 body funeral pier, and Asa gets to go to heaven with his buddies.

Lorraine apologizes to Mary, and admits that this whole time she thought Hunting prevented Asa from having a family - but he DID have a famiy, a Hunting family! Also, illegitemate children! Lorraine goes off to get to know her grandkids, and no doubt start discouraging THEM from Hunting :P

Jody and Mary talk, and Mary apologizes for trying to kill Jody when she was possessed. Jody shrugs it off with "I've had worse". Then Jody talks "Mom to Mom" and tells Mary that she doesn't know what's going on between them all, but that Sam and Dean are good men, the best she's ever met. Mary says she knows, and that the boys aren't the problem.. Jody leaves that where it lies and walks away. Oh Mary, you get your self-blame from Dean and your running away from Sam.... or well, they get it from you, but my point stands!

Then Billie shows up to call in her favour! And it's Mary! She wants her to be dead again - what dies stays dead, it's a rule. Billie points out that Mary hates being alive, that she's got "dead man's eyes" and Billie knows that everything feels wrong to her. Billie claims she's offering her a mercy.

And I have to wonder about that - because even when Dean was saved in S2, he spent the first few episodes PRETTY F*CKED UP ABOUT IT. And had that whole "what's dead should stay dead" episode where he went balistic on anyone who suggested otherwise... and I believe he also mentioned feeling wrong. So, I wonder if it's something that goes away with time, or if Mary just has it 100% worse because she was actually dead, instead of Dean who was just MOSTLY dead.

Mary asks how it would work? And Sam starts to inwardly and outwardly panic that all his levelheadedness isn't enough to hold them together. Billie says there are rules, and Billie can't kill her - basically implying that Mary would have to off herself or get one of the boys to do it (which, yikes). So, Mary looks at the boys, and then tells Billie that, in that case, she'll just have to wait.

Billie mutters about "Winchesters" - but honestly, what did she expect there? She does say though that if Mary changes her mind, she knows Billie's name... which, I fear must be foreshadowing for either the near future or a distant one (please at least be distant).

Sam then asks if this means that she's coming home. Mary says yes, but not yet. Dean asks if they can at least buy her breakfast, and then promises her all the bacon she wants. And it's cute.

Which means the future will only rip our hearts out.

Oh hey, someone in the youtube comments for the promo for next week pointed out that none of the Hunters had anti-possession tattoos! Amateurs! But that does mean that we never had to fear for Dean getting possessed, since he's the one that we know for sure has one. Still, they should give Jody one of those - and Mary - you'd think they would come free with friendship.

Next week we're back to the B plot (or is it the A plot? No wait, it's the B plot, and Mary is the C plot.)


As per usual, let me know what you thought in comments. I really liked this one though, so if you hated it, don't rain on my parade. And if you HAVE to, don't forget the rule of balancing out negative comments with positive ones!

Comments

( 19 comments — Leave a comment )
Elaine McCourt
Nov. 18th, 2016 08:28 am (UTC)
I'm happy, especially after last week's very meh (for me) episode, because I really liked this one too. Having Jody around is always fun, the boys did a bit of healing with Mary, and we got Other Hunters, which is awesome. Hurrah!
hells_half_acre
Nov. 19th, 2016 04:25 am (UTC)
Agreed! :)
liliaeth
Nov. 18th, 2016 12:53 pm (UTC)
I'm just glad to now know Max's name*g*

Either way, I loved both of the twins, and would love it if the CW keeps wanting to make an spn spin off, that it could be about them. The actors managed to move their characters away from being stereotypes, made me care about their situation, and have an interesting backstory.

And the fact that they were raised by a witch, would help give a series about them a different perspective, than that of the Winchesters. Setting them apart, while still clearly setting them in the same universe. (which is something that was missing in the previous attempt at a spin off.

I also liked Lorraine, and how she as a mother compared to Mary and Jody's approach to being mothers. How even though she very understandably, did not want her son to be a hunter, and risk his life as he did, she still opens her house for his friends, so they can have a wake for him, and lets them give Ava a Hunter's funeral. As his next of kin, she could have easily set aside his wishes, but she didn't do so. I also loved how she instantly opened her heart to her grandchildren getting a happy ending, knowing that at least some part of her son is still there. And that he did have a family, even if she hadn't been aware of it.

And Dean... so eager to tell one of his only friends left that he killed Hitler. Thing is, I'm pretty sure that he did drive by her, just so he could brag to her about it, because he knows she's one of the few people who'd believe him, and who's opinion he cared about.
It is equally interesting, that he makes no attempt to claim credit for saving the entire universe, even though he did

Yet when meeting the other hunters, they're almost surprised to be seen as legends. Even though it's obvious<

I must admit that before the ep was half way through, I did a small fast forward to make sure that the twins survived the ep, was really glad they did, and as mentioned, I'd love to see them again.
hells_half_acre
Nov. 19th, 2016 04:31 am (UTC)
And the fact that they were raised by a witch, would help give a series about them a different perspective, than that of the Winchesters. Setting them apart, while still clearly setting them in the same universe. (which is something that was missing in the previous attempt at a spin off.

YES! I'd love to watch a spin off of these two.

How even though she very understandably, did not want her son to be a hunter, and risk his life as he did, she still opens her house for his friends, so they can have a wake for him, and lets them give Ava a Hunter's funeral. As his next of kin, she could have easily set aside his wishes, but she didn't do so. I also loved how she instantly opened her heart to her grandchildren getting a happy ending, knowing that at least some part of her son is still there. And that he did have a family, even if she hadn't been aware of it.

Agreed. She was lovely - and if you're going to disapprove of your children, that's the way to do it - to disapprove, but be supportive, welcoming, even when your kid isn't around to appreciate it.

It is equally interesting, that he makes no attempt to claim credit for saving the entire universe, even though he did

It's very true! I wonder if there's a social/cultural commentary there - or a character commentary - whether he doesn't brag about the universe because he sees himself as at fault for putting it in danger in the first place? Or that he says saving the universe as his job, but killing Hitler, because so many people wish to do so, is something apart from that.

I must admit that before the ep was half way through, I did a small fast forward to make sure that the twins survived the ep, was really glad they did, and as mentioned, I'd love to see them again.

Same! (Well, not the fastforwarding bit, but the bit about wanting to see them again.)

rovallie5
Nov. 19th, 2016 12:17 am (UTC)
I really love this episode. I love the interaction among the characters, the introduction of new ones, please I want the twins to comeback, and I beg nothing wrong happen to them; the fact they are hunters raised by a witch, give them an interesting backstory.

haha I can't believe Dean and Sam weren't aware of their popularity among hunters, c'mon they have done such as incredible and dangerous things to be unnoticed, I remember seeing on tumblr a joke that everytime something is leashed out, hunters probably thought what the Winchesters do now lol.

As for Mary, had to say when I saw an sneak peek, the one in which she and the boys talk at the beginning of the episode, couldn't understand why she travelled to Canada to see a man she met once 36 years ago, as if were more important than her sons;as if she wasn't even trying to connect with them. But then I realized, and you pointed out, that she suffers from self-blame and running away as her kids, and that's combination is awful. I get if she needs to grieve her loss, and also needs to discover this new world, herself, but she can't run forever, she needs to face what's going on. And I loved Jody when told her how awesome are Sam and Dean, because they are.

On a side note, when Sam and Mary discovered the dead guy called Bull? I thought "oh no, is the cut on his stomach?" I immediately remember the pilot episode. Yeah, poor Mary and Sam.


Edited at 2016-11-19 12:21 am (UTC)
hells_half_acre
Nov. 19th, 2016 04:41 am (UTC)
Agreed about the twins coming back!

And yes, also agree about how I can't believe Sam and Dean didn't know they would have stories about them.

But then I realized, and you pointed out, that she suffers from self-blame and running away as her kids, and that's combination is awful. I get if she needs to grieve her loss, and also needs to discover this new world, herself, but she can't run forever, she needs to face what's going on.

Yeah, I can understand her needing time, and perhaps wanting to poke around at her old life to see how much, if any, is left - and to do so without the boys there. Sometimes, grief is easier when you don't have an audience for it... or at least it is for me. And Mary IS grieving, which I think is WHY she would drive to Canada for a wake. I think it might have finally seemed an appropriate action for how she was feeling already.

On a side note, when Sam and Mary discovered the dead guy called Bull? I thought "oh no, is the cut on his stomach?" I immediately remember the pilot episode. Yeah, poor Mary and Sam.

Exactly! I was have expecting him to be pinned there by demon force! Poor Winchesters!
khek
Nov. 19th, 2016 03:07 am (UTC)
I really liked this episode too. I'm enjoying the return to the MotW format for a bit.

I know three Buckys. Two are (or were) in their 80s and friends of my parents. One is in his 50s. His actual name is Francis though, so I think Bucky is pretty good. I also know three--no four--guys named Butch. And a Foo-Foo. Nicknames are weird. (and I won't even go into Pinky, Guppy, Baboo.)

I loved Lorraine's 80s glasses. I think they were partly to make her look old and out of date, because the actress actually had a pretty young face. I was trying to figure out how old she would have been, and thought it was probably 70s? She looked younger though.

I hope they bring the twins back, and if they do, that they survive. And Jody, as always, was great.

Every time I see Billie, it reminds me that I want to have Death back. I hope she shows up again, eventually.

hells_half_acre
Nov. 19th, 2016 04:50 am (UTC)
I'm enjoying the return to MotW format too! And I'm wondering what the difference is between now, when I'm enjoying it, and S7, when I wasn't... and... I don't know! But it's all lovely!

Wow, that's a lot of Buckys! It must be more of an American thing. I know a lot of Andrews who are called by their last names instead of Andrew... and in high school I knew a guy nicknamed Twink, who was considerably not a twink. But... that's about it. I know another guy named Blip... but yeah, no Buckys. The only one I know is the one in Captain America... unless I'm forgetting someone.

Yeah, Lorraine looked really young to me, but I guess by "really young" I mean in her early 60s. So, it's perfectly conceivable that she'd have a kid Asa's age.

I hope they bring the twins back too!

Yeah, I love Billie, but at the same time, I'm always worried whenever she's around!
borgmama1of5
Nov. 19th, 2016 04:18 am (UTC)
Best parts of the episode were all the various Winchester interactions and Dean needing to get back in the house. I thought it was telling that at the end Mary wlaked off with Sam's arm around her, Dean walking ahead alone...oh Dean...

Oh Mary, you get your self-blame from Dean and your running away from Sam.... or well, they get it from you, but my point stands!

Right on the nose with that observation...

I did wonder about crossing the border with a trunkful of weapons...

And I realized just how I gotten a little twisted from this fandom when the demon said he was going to spill the twins secret and my first thought was 'Oh, they're sleeping together...' Fortunately I mentioned that to someone else and they confessed they thought the same thing so I'm not the only warped one...
hells_half_acre
Nov. 19th, 2016 04:53 am (UTC)
Yeah, I liked that end shot of Sam and his mum. Poor Dean though... I WOULD like the show to focus a little bit more on Sam's relationship with the mother he never had though, that's my little criticism. Right now, it's all just... way too reasonable Sam, and not much exploring of how jarring it must be to have a mother for the first time ever. But maybe I'm asking too much.

Yeah, Sam and Dean just must be really smooth liars to cross the border with a trunk full of weapons. But then, as long as they aren't pulled over for inspection, I don't think there's anything that would cause the border agents to not take them at their word.

And I realized just how I gotten a little twisted from this fandom when the demon said he was going to spill the twins secret and my first thought was 'Oh, they're sleeping together...' Fortunately I mentioned that to someone else and they confessed they thought the same thing so I'm not the only warped one...

Ha! I thought the same thing, but I'm hardly a mark of not being twisted. :P
liliaeth
Nov. 19th, 2016 08:58 am (UTC)
I think part of why Sam is being so 'reasonable', is because he never knew what it was like to have a mom, so he never knew what he was missing either, whereas Dean did.

For Sam, normal is absent father, and Dean looking after him.

Which is why for him it was worse when Dean started going off to hunts with John, or why Sam tends to break to pieces whenever he's lost Dean, or is at risk of losing Dean, for real. Because even when he runs away from Dean, or is off on his own, the reality of Dean is still there.

For him, the notion of having a mother, is like uhm, well ... getting a car, when you've never had one in your life.

All your life is settled to not having a car of your own, so though occasionally you might hitch a ride with someone else, but most of the time, you arrange for other forms of transportation, either on foot, by bike, in my case by moped. To the point that the idea of having a car of your own seems like a distant afterthought

So when one day, someone gets you a car, you're used to getting everywhere in another way. And it's nice to have the car, it's useful, it's easier, but if the car were to go away, you'd slip right back into old habits, maybe occasionally thinking, "well it would have been easier if the car were still here", but overall, it's not something you don't know how to handle.

Whereas for another person, who grew up driving everywhere with a car, never learned to take the bus or a bike, and suddenly loses that car, would be in a complete panic, and a feeling of grief and loss. And eventually they might get used to it, they might start using alternatives and so on, but part of them will always feel that loss, because they were used to it. So when they get their car back, it's a much bigger thing, and the idea of losing said car again, brings back that sense of devastation at losing it the first time around.

Hoping that comparison makes sense?

As for the twins, well they 'were' sitting pretty close together on that couch*eg*
marlowe78
Nov. 19th, 2016 08:33 pm (UTC)
very interesting comparison, car vs mom :-D Though I understand what you mean and I agree. Sam can be reasonable and emphatic, because it's not someone he lost, but someone he'd always wanted to meet.
Now he can meet her, and he can understand her - he's not yet as emotionally invested as Dean, who DID know her and who probably has her on some kind of pedestal for being the perfect thing. Because when he lost her, moms WERE the most perfect thing in the world.

And I love how Jody pretty much knows exactly what's up in Dean's mind.
hells_half_acre
Nov. 20th, 2016 11:40 pm (UTC)
Yes, I agree with marlowe78, that your metaphor is apt. And also that Sam doesn't have any pre-built notions of who is mother is - beyond "this is her favourite song" and "I saw her once in a memory of Dean's..."

I still think though that there's an element of wanting to be liked that's missing. I don't know though, because I don't have any long-lost parents to reconnect with... but I'd think there'd be an element of "What does my mother think of who I've become" etc - which is pretty much what Sam believes Dean is going through, that Mary will disapprove of him and leave for good. Yes, does Sam not have that desire for his parent to be proud of him? He never felt appreciated by Dad, nor it seemed to me, that his father had any particular pride in Sam's decisions - those affirmations always came from Dean, as you say.

And, I guess what you're saying is that Sam's emotional landscape just completely lacks the need for that sort of thing - but, I don't know. Yes, he got that from Dean, but is there no part of him that is thinking of whether or not Mary will give or deny him the same? It's just questions like that I want explored.

That all being said, I DO agree with you - and I think it's brilliant how it DOES explain why Sam is extremely dependent on the promise of Dean's continued existence.
marlowe78
Nov. 19th, 2016 08:20 pm (UTC)
Well hello there! I'm back ;-)
Maybe you didn't even notice, but I had a little time-out with SPN (again! Damn it!) after the last half-season hiatus. I got stuck (again-again! Damn it!) on another show and it took a while to get back on the horse. Then there came the three season-ending eps which I'm sorry, I hated. For a lot of reasons, most of all for sloppy writing. But I'm not here to talk about that - new season, new awesomeness, right?!

So anyway.
This here was very close to perfect. Some minor stuff that bugs me (how come nobody said "Christo"?) but a lot of stuff I loved.


But why was Mary hunting in 1980! Dean was a BABY... like, he'd be 1 year old. Mary answers this for us - she was finishing up business and had been tracking that werewolf for a long time. So, interesting? A failed hunt from her pre-John days?


Well. I think it was a failed hunt, yes. It might even be one of those times she had a huge fight with John (if I remember correctly, it was said they fought quite a lot... Or am I wrong in that?) and she saw a story about someone killing kids and she remembered the hunt and well, she has a little boy! So ... perfect time to let macho-husband take care of the son for a weekend and go off hunting to clear the head.
That's my reasoning here ;-)


Which... I'm not sure I like, because isn't a LOT of this show about Free Will and how it's totally a thing and you can decide what you want to do with your life regardless of your manipulated upbringing?!?! So, I'm wondering if this is going to come back around, or if this is just the one pre-determinded thing that their going to hang on to.


Hm, but you see, we are formed by our experiences, genes and upbringing. If all three include for example hunting monsters, it'd need a LOT of free willpower to overcome it. Imagine a woman who's grown up in a violent home, had violent partners and married a violent man. It's not impossible for her to be a kind, wonderful mother - but it's a lot harder for her NOT to fall into violent tendencies as it'd be for a person from a loving, "normal" childhood with normal boyfriends along the way. So with all the free-will in the world, you still have to make an effort. Even if you're born a perfect guitar-player, you'd still have to make the effort of becoming famous if that's what you want. If you don't want to make the effort -well, that's still free will. Waste, maybe. But it's your choice. And hunting might be in the Winchester's blood, but it's still their choice to lay it down a bit, at least for a while and even more for forever.

marlowe78
Nov. 19th, 2016 08:20 pm (UTC)

And had that whole "what's dead should stay dead" episode where he went balistic on anyone who suggested otherwise... and I believe he also mentioned feeling wrong. So, I wonder if it's something that goes away with time, or if Mary just has it 100% worse because she was actually dead, instead of Dean who was just MOSTLY dead.


Oh yeah. I even thought more of the aftermath of Hell when I thought about the "dead eyes"-thing. Of course, there was all the underlying issue of torture (active and passive), but Dean was a hot mess, that's for sure (both is sure - the mess and the hotness. Did I say that? O.O ). So I think he would get Mary, maybe even more than Sam does - but he's also so fucking afraid of losing her, of being hurt again by losing someone - and not just anyone-someone, but his MOM! The one thing he'd always thought of as "perfect", because when she died she still was perfect for little Dean.
Aw hell, poor Dean. Did you notice that Dean didn't touch Mary in the end? Sam just hugged her close, but Dean walks in front and ... kinda stays apart. It's not all well for him yet, even though he's trying.
Sam... Sam has it easier, I think. For one, he's a really smart man with his emotional landscape pretty much .... if not in order, than at least so arranged that he knows where he's at. Also, he doesn#t have that ton of abandonment-issues that Dean has, and also Mary has always been just that person far away, never met, never really gotten to know. Well, apart from future-Mary and ghost-Mary, but that doesn't count.
He never quite lost her - he only ever met her. She's never really been real, never been a part of his childhood, and he has the ability to see her from that distance as a person - not an image of perfection.


Still, when it comes to the "dead eyes"-thing, I think Mary should talk to Dean. Or ... probably not. I'm not sure it'd be good for her to hear all the crap her kid has gone through, her little boy. Right now she just knows they grew up as hunters and that Sam went to college and that for "some reason" (I have to look up your ramble about that ep :-) ) he came back to hunting. I don't think she already knows what crap they all went through, and that she really, really isn't the only one coming back from the dead. Though of course there is a difference between snapping back a year later, or 30 years. So..... yeah.


Ok.
Jody. Oh my God, JODY! I love her, I so love her. I've always loved her and I'm just so glad she's been back and survived (yay!) and how she fangirled over Mary! And how she knows how Dean feels, scared as hell even when your whole body tries to light up in joy. Aw Jody. *sniff*
One little thing I really adored was the grey in her hair. I knwo it's silly, but I like that she's ageing like a normal person would, that she has flings with hunters (good choice - they look good, you can talk about crazy stuff and you can be pretty sure they will not be too clingy- and also always happy to visit. Just never forget the condom!) and that she's a mom and a friend and a smart, smart person all in one.

I did feel a bit bad about that friend-killing guy. Except... he strung him up! He killed him - ok, accident, that can happen! - but then he put a rope around his neck and strung him up. Why? Maybe - and I'm only guessing here - he was so afraid of losing his "family" - Asa's mother, Asa's friends and the community - that he did the one thing that was certain to lose him exactly that. Kinda sad that we didn't get more of his reasoning :-( Damn the time-limit for the show!

Anyways. I'm really super-happy that you're still here and I can still come around for my dose of positive re-capping :-)

hells_half_acre
Nov. 20th, 2016 11:54 pm (UTC)
Agreed about Dean and Sam's different abilities to view Mary has a person vs. mother. I still think we need a bit more exploration of Sam getting to know Mary, AS A PERSON, and their reactions to learning about each other and having the other person learn about them too. I mean, we got that lovely tease in the second episode - where Mary was afraid of facing Sam, feeling that YED was her fault, and yet we never got to see that conversation at all. That's why I'm feeling robbed by Sam being reasonable all the time - it's not that I think Sam SHOULDN'T be reasonable, it's more that I don't think Sam and Mary's relationship should be the smoothest sailing ship on the sea. I want to SEE those conversations - I want Sam to tell Mary that he understands and doesn't blame her at all, and I want Sam to tell Mary about his past and have her still stand by him as well. They can both stay reasonable the whole time, but I want to see WHY they're reasonable and HOW they manage to get there.

Still, when it comes to the "dead eyes"-thing, I think Mary should talk to Dean. Or ... probably not. I'm not sure it'd be good for her to hear all the crap her kid has gone through, her little boy. Right now she just knows they grew up as hunters and that Sam went to college and that for "some reason" (I have to look up your ramble about that ep :-) ) he came back to hunting. I don't think she already knows what crap they all went through, and that she really, really isn't the only one coming back from the dead. Though of course there is a difference between snapping back a year later, or 30 years. So..... yeah.

Exactly! I want to see her reaction to all that - and to John and the childhood they had. And everything.

One little thing I really adored was the grey in her hair. I knwo it's silly, but I like that she's ageing like a normal person would

Agreed! I loved that too - that they let her be human and looking her age. I agree about all the other reasons you love her too!

Maybe - and I'm only guessing here - he was so afraid of losing his "family" - Asa's mother, Asa's friends and the community - that he did the one thing that was certain to lose him exactly that. Kinda sad that we didn't get more of his reasoning :-( Damn the time-limit for the show!

Yeah, I think he was terrified of the backlash from killing him, even though it was an accident, and he tried to "solve" that problem by doing something that would make the backlash 100x worse. When really, I'm sure if he had come out of those woods completely honest about what happened, and his emotions over what happened, he would have found love and forgiveness rather than being ostracized.

nyways. I'm really super-happy that you're still here and I can still come around for my dose of positive re-capping :-)

Me too! :)





hells_half_acre
Nov. 20th, 2016 11:44 pm (UTC)
Hello! I did notice your absence! But people often drop out of the show, or their lives take them away from being able to comment on the interwebs... so, I didn't think much of it. I'm glad that you are back with the show and all caught up!

And I totally agree with you about those last 3 episodes of S11. Sigh.

I like your reasoning for Mary's hunt.

And yes, you make a good point about the intersection of genes, upbringing, and experiences. If all three involve hunting, and you don't necessarily HATE hunting (or only hate aspects of it), then it would take a lot of willpower to stay away. I mean, we've seen that time and again with the boys - the only one who successfully left when they wanted was Sam, but the first time he eventually got roped back in, and the second time I'm still claiming psychotic break.
cookiemom6067
Nov. 22nd, 2016 11:27 am (UTC)
One thing I didn't think about until I read your post is the "What Is And What Should Never Be" 'verse.

That was season two, so we didn't know that Mary had been a hunter.

I wonder if she "couldn't stay away from it" then, either. Of course, that wasn't really Mary, it was Dean's idea of Mary since he was under the spell of the Djinn, so maybe that's irrelevant.
hells_half_acre
Nov. 22nd, 2016 06:17 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I think WIAWSNB is irrelevant when it comes to understanding Mary. What it DOES inform though is the idealized version of Mary that Dean has in his head - for Dean, Mary represented the domestic normal life that he could never have - and the loving supportive parent that he never had... so, the first of those myths to shatter, or a least crack, cracked back in S4 when Dean discovered that Mary was a hunter before she settled down.

The second myth is that she's the pinnacle of parenting and would give him what John didn't... and that's what's shattering now, because like John, Mary left. And like John, Mary has her own problems that she's prioritizing over Dean's happiness. I'm not saying that she SHOULDN'T.... I'm just saying that finding out that his mother is human and has flaws, and isn't that person from WIAWSNB, is a hard pill to swallow for Dean.
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