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Quick Reaction: 11x21 All in the Family

I actually caught the EST livestream tonight! Yay! (FYI next week's write-up is going to go up really late, because I land in Vancouver at 9pm, so by the time I get home and get the episode downloaded, it's probably going to be 11pm or midnight...)

This episode was mostly about getting the chess pieces in place for the final two episodes. That's not terribly uncommon for a 11x21 episode (and also not uncommon for a Leming-Buckner episode - it seems to be the myth-arc episodes they're handed the most often, now that I think about it.)

Because I was on the livestream, I missed a line here and there. So, you'll have to forgive my mistakes! (Though, you always do, so it should really go without saying.)

To the episode....

So, we pick up immediately following the previous episode. Sam and Dean are skeptical about whether Chuck is Chuck - and then Chuck zaps them to the bunker... and then if that wasn't enough proof - KEVIN!!! Oh man, I didn't realize how much I missed and loved Kevin until he was there.

He tells Sam and Dean to trust Chuck, and then Chuck takes his ghost out of the veil and "upgrades" him to soul-going-to-heaven status, it seems. Awww... why not "upgrade" him to LIFE. I love Kevin.... hopefully he and Bobby will hang out in heaven, even though they never met - oh, or he and Charlie and Ash! Just... man, I kinda want to watch the Supernatural Heaven show, you know?

Anywho... Sam is very nervous about talking to God - and I love the way Jared plays it, where he's trying to play it cool, but he's obviously freaking out in twelve directions at once, and babbling as a result. Speaking of loving how actors play things though - I LOVE the way Jensen chose to play Dean's reaction.

But first, I have to talk about how BOTH their reactions were so in keeping with their personalities and belief systems. Sam, the optimistic faithful person, is nervous and babbling... Dean, my favourite atheist in a confirmed-God universe, is ANGRY - but he's not just ANGRY, he's "angry sad" (as I wrote in my notes) - he's angry because he's devastated. There's moments of levity, of course - Dean saying that he's not trying to be disrespectful and doesn't want ot get "turned into a piller of salt" and Chuck saying "that wasn't me" - but Dean cuts the heart of the matter - how can God, as the God-who-turned-away, live with himself for abandoning his creation?

Man, I wish it was fresher in my mind, but I read a great book about the Holocaust (Rethinking the Holocaust) that had a whole chapter or more about theology in the walk of the Holocaust and how you can reconcile the existence of a (Jewish) God with the reality that He would allow such atrocity to happen to his people.... anyway, it touched on a lot of these themes, and my favourite one was the idea of The God Who Turned Away. Anyway, I digress...

Chuck explains that he tried the hands on approach, but it didn't work - and so he let his children make their own choices and such and hoped that it would get better. Dean argues that it didn't. Chuck argues that it did (I'm actually more inclined to side with Chuck on this one - it might be present-bias, but I do believe that as a society, despite a few setbacks here and there, humanity as a whole improves with time.)

Dean, though, has abandonment issues, and they're in full force here - he accuses of Chuck of thinking that things have gotten better, only because that justifies him leaving. Chuck pulls no punches and tells Dean that he KNOWS Dean's particular upbringing and he tells Dean not to confuse Chuck with his own father. Ouch.

Meanwhile, back in the bell jar... Amara and Lucifer are hanging out, the former torturing the latter. Lucifer refuses to call out to God for help though, and Amara is getting frustrated - more than that, she can feel that God is out there somewhere.

Back with Chuck - he tells the Winchesters that Amara is warded against him, so he needs them to help him find her. He tells them that he has faith in Sam and Dean's ability to do so, even if they don't have faith in him. They make the mistake of bringing up Lucifer, and Chuck doesn't react too well - obviously a lot of bad blood there :P

Chuck argues that he NEVER trusted Lucifer and he's pretty pissed off that Sam and Dean let him out of the cage (listen, Chuck, I don't think anyone is more pissed off than Sam - and it was technically Castiel's fault that he's out of the cage - so maybe you should be asking yourself why your kid ended up with such low self-esteem that he thought saying yes to Lucifer was a good idea!)

Speaking of Lucifer, Amara is sick of him talking and puts him to sleep. Then she puts a hand to his stomach and somehow that allows her to talk to Dean? Interesting. I guess because Cas is in there and Cas and Dean having a profound bond? I don't know - I'm sure the shippers will tell me.

Amara sends a message to Dean - a vision - and basically tries to turn Dean against God, and also shows him how much she's beat up his boyfriend (I don't think that's going to win him over to your side, Amara.)

Meanwhile, in Lewis, OK, the fog rolls into town and everyone is dying.

Sam and Dean chat in the Bunker about how God sleeps, takes long showers, and sings crappy old folk songs. I love the fact that Dean told him to "cool it" three times and that Sam's surprised at that. I also love how Sam goes a little fanboy and talks about how he has so many questions - why are planets round (gravity, Sam, you don't need God to answer that one - you need a scientist, and you should really already know the answer.)  and what's with ears? Sam always thought they were weird. (You got me there, Sam. Human ears ARE weird and I don't know why they look that way either.)

Dean isn't really having the fanboying - and he continues his honesty-streak (yay!) and tells Sam about the vision from Amara.

Chuck wonders in wearing Dean's robe though, something that Dean's not too impressed by. He also asks if they have any bacon - which Sam (I think it was Sam's?) is excited to hear about, since it confirms that kosher things don't really matter. My laughable moment though is the fact that Sam and Dean think they can keep their conversations from God just by not talking when he's not in the room - uh, I mean, I know this is SPN'verse!God, but I'm pretty sure he is still omniscient and omnipresent.

Jump to Metatron! Who is nursing his sorrows in a bar. He sees a clip on the TV about the deadly fog - and the TV also shows security cam footage of the incident the other day (crap, I'm going to have to download the episode, because they might say how many days ago it was and I need that for the timeline... brb... and yes, I type these stream of consciousness...welcome to my mind.)

Metatron sees footage of Sam and Dean meeting Chuck. So he calls them. Sam and Dean are on their way to Lewis, OK, but they pick up the phone and talk to Metatron, who insists on seeing them in person.

In Lewis, OK, Sam and Dean meet up with a professor, named Donatello - not after the Ninja Turtle, but the Renaissance painter. He gives an account of what happened, and apparently when the fog rolled in, he was zapped with knowledge - prophet style. Which makes sense, I guess, because now that Kevin's soul isn't on earth, a new prophet needs to be awakened.

Sam and Dean are a little skeptical, because Donatello wasn't one of the prophets that Crowley rounded up in S8, but whatever - handwave that plot-hole away! I actually thought it would be cool - and Sam and Dean SORT OF float this idea - that Donatello was triggered by an AMARA event, maybe he's AMARA'S PROPHET!?! (But we soon find out that he's a regular ol' prophet, because Chuck knows him and so does Metatron.)

They decide to take the professor back to the bunker and they give him the "God is real" speech on the way - which doesn't go over that well, because he's an atheist - but then when they get into a certain radius, the Professor senses something and sort of just comes to terms with it enough.

Dean walks into the buner first to find Chuck on his computer - Chuck says he's never seen so much porn in one place. It sounds like he's watching a sports game though, so there's that.

Dean tells him about Donatello and tells him to "dial back the God stuff" because the prophet is a bit freaked out. (Uh, dial it down to what, Dean? Chuck is already dialed back pretty much completely).

Chuck, of course, knows him. Sam tells the prophet that Chuck prefers to be called Chuck (which is really never not funny) and the prophet apologizes for being an atheist. Chuck tells him that it's okay, Chuck believes in himself and he was the one that gave Donatello free-will in the first place.

Then Sam and Dean go off to meet Metatron - who tells them the God's REAL plan - h's not going to defeat Amara, he's going to sacrifice himself. Metatron hands them God's autobiography as proof and calls it a suicide note. Well, we all guessed as much given Metatron and God's reaction to it last week - but I figured it was a case of God HAS to sacrifice himself in order to DESTORY Amara, not God is going to sacrifice himself and Amara continues to live... doesn't seem like a fool-proof plan to me, since there would be nothing keeping Amara to her word (but we'll get to that.)

Dean decides to talk to God about it in a park (and I'd love to see that Rock-Paper-Scissors game, because why else is Sam not there?)... Dean, once again, sees it as God "bailing"  - God tells Dean that he'd be caged, not dead. Chuck's certain that Dean and "others that are the chosen" will find a way to keept he world safe in his absense. After all, that was why he saved Dean all those years ago (Ah! S5 opening - right, it took me a moment to remember what event he was referring to.) He calls Dean the "Firewall between light and darkness" and I love that description.

Dean goes back to the Bunker and he and the Professor/Prophet basically sum-up the episode so far. Sam brings Metatron in, and we find out he'd been circling the building all night sending texts to Dean (so, I guess that means that not EVERYONE who has been in the Bunker can get BACK in on their own.) Metatron argues that he's an asset because he's translated the angel tablet, knows a bunch of spells, and suchlike... then he tries to be cool and take a sip of beer as he sits down, but Sam doesn't let him steal his beer.

They ask his motivations - and basically Metatron is loyal to God - he wants to wants to save him from being killed/caged - because he loves him.

So, the plan, Dean and Sam tell us, is to rescue Lucifer, and then convince Chuck to work with him to fight Amara, rather than give in to her. How do they find Amara? Well, why not use the prophet that's just fallen into their lap? He can sense where she is, apparently.

The plan, it seems, is underway, as Dean meets with Amara in the woods. The conversation is really creepy, because it's all about how there "can be no us" and they have to just walk away....and knowing that it's all against Dean's will skeeves me out. He's basically under a love potion, but he KNOWS it... ugh.

Meanwhile, Sam and old-man crew are busting Casifer out of his chains.

Amara tells Dean to consider her offer - saying that she knows the world hasn't been kind to him, and that he should give up on humanity and join with her. He says that he's drawn to her, because he sees her as the end to his struggle (ugh - so, basically, she's suicide?! She's basically like a walking love-potion dementor/depression.) She then touches his face and is like "where are your thoughts?" and she realizes that he's been in touch with God and he's actually actively betrayingn her RIGHT THAT MOMENT.

Metatron is frantically trying to find the right spell to unbind Lucifer. He finally succeeds, just as they know that Amara's return is immenient. Lucifer is too drained to zap them out of there, which was their exit plan (WHAT ABOUT THE CAR?! SAM! YOU SHOULD HAVE DRIVEN A STOLEN ONE IF THAT WAS YOUR PLAN!!)... so Sam grabs him and carries him out (and wow - I mean, you can have your own headcanons about what happened in the cage, but to me the fact that Sam voluntarily goes that close to Lucifer... I'm really impressed with Sam.)

Metatron stays behind, thinking he might be able to do something. The spell he tries though doesn't do much beyond make a pretty light and stall Amara for another 30 seconds. Amara then, basically, "nothings" Metatron - takes him right out of the universe, by the looks of it.

Sam is gunning it in the car (seemingly in the DoD lands) when Amara appears on the road in front of them. Sam breaks hard... and I'm sitting there wondering why he doesn't just run her over?! I mean, Sam, you're driving a fuckin' TANK of a car. I know she's God's sister so you wouldn't kill her, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to try!... Amara then prevents the car from moving at all, even though Sam tries to throw it into reverse. She says they aren't worth sparing and holds out her hands to call on her powers, I guess.... and then suddenly the Impala is in the Bunker.

Like I said, God - kind of omniscient - so he saved them. (Also, God better zap the Impala back out of the bunker - otherwise...uh... car disassembly time?!)

Lucifer and God see each other for the first time. God says "you've changed" and Lucifer says "so have you" and God says that he's actually the same as he's always been, as he heals Lucifer (and Castiel).

Then there's a weird tag on the end of the episode as they drop Donatello (the professor/prophet) back in Lewis, OK. Dean then tells Sam what Amara wants from him - that she wants him to LITERALLY be a part of her forever - so basically "adios"... and yeah, SUPER CREEPY.

But this means that not only do we have a "save the world" situation, we also, for the 3rd season in a row, have a "save Dean" situation. Sam's notoriously kind of bad at that, though he tries SO HARD... so, it'll be interesting to see how this one turns out.

Next week, I'm guessing we start working on end-game plans.

And, like I said at the beginning, next week's review probably won't be online until the wee hours of Thursday - due to my flight schedule as I return to the Vancouver.

Let me know what you thought in comments!!! :)


( 34 comments — Leave a comment )
May. 12th, 2016 04:54 am (UTC)
Given the writers, this was better than I expected.

Dean's reaction to Chuck was so sad (and that was the scene Jensen talked about at Asylum, where he played it differently than everyone expected--picture Dean hurling those accusations in anger vs the heartbreaking scene we got. Also, note that Dean didn't ask why God had let all the crappy stuff happen to the Winchesters, which certainly would have been a valid question, he asked why God let the world suffer!)

Sam's babbling actually bothered me and seemed to be more of a joke than in character...

I appreciated show took the time to give a rational reason for creating a new prophet (and how cool was that to see Kevin! Total surprise!!!) but I'm not sure we actually needed one...I mean, he was written to provide a pointer to Amara and to spark lots and lots of God jokes/amusing reaction lines from an atheist, but they could have found another way to find her. (Interesting thrown-out line about Rowena still floating around with the Book of the Damned--a hint?) And then to let him go home at the end??? They don't want to hang on to their new prophet, they're going to leave him out for Amara to find?

Metatron died well, substantially atoning for how awful he was in the previous 3 seasons...

So will Dean ask Chuck to kindly relocate the Impala to the garage?

I was surprised we found out God's plan to sacrifice himself now and not in the finale. Just how are they planning on ending this season? It's got to be connected with Dean and Amara's link somehow tying into sacrifice...

May. 12th, 2016 05:28 am (UTC)
Also, note that Dean didn't ask why God had let all the crappy stuff happen to the Winchesters, which certainly would have been a valid question, he asked why God let the world suffer!)

Oh man, yeah, I wanted to talk about that - because that was so in keeping with who Dean is. DEAN could never turn his back on people who were suffering - case and point, What Is And What Should Never Be, where even before he knew he was in a Djinn dream, he still realized that he couldn't live with himself in paradise (or close to paradise) if it meant that everyone he had ever saved was dead.

Sam's babbling actually bothered me and seemed to be more of a joke than in character...

I liked it. It was reminiscent of when Sam first met Cas.

.I mean, he was written to provide a pointer to Amara and to spark lots and lots of God jokes/amusing reaction lines from an atheist, but they could have found another way to find her.

My thoughts exactly.

I was surprised we found out God's plan to sacrifice himself now and not in the finale. Just how are they planning on ending this season? It's got to be connected with Dean and Amara's link somehow tying into sacrifice...

I really hope it doesn't involve one of the brothers "dying" - but yeah, I was super surprised that they revealed Chuck's plan so early.

I kind of want Chuck to go out - as much as I love Rob - I WANT them to live in a CONFIRMED god-less universe. I also don't want Amara around though - so they need a different plan than Chuck's current one, for sure.
May. 12th, 2016 11:53 am (UTC)
Yep, those were the DOD lands where Amara met up with the Impala. Pretty easy to spot when you've been there a few times, right? ;)
I also wondered why Sam didn't hit her with the car, but then I figured Dean would be pissed about the damage. Also, i think Sam's first impulse is to "save the car!" now just because he's been around it and Dean so much. After all, he did finally admit she was "home" in this season's "Baby" ep.

Dean's going to be pissed over Chuck just dropping the car any old place in the bunker though. I definitely heard some parts hitting the floor. Very rough landing.

Btw, I think Donatello was praying to Chuck inside the car, which is why Chuck saved them and said he still occassionally answers prayers. The guy was doing all this muttering and I was trying to figure out what he was doing and I did hear him say Chuck's name.

I really have no idea where they're going with all of this, but I'm eager to find out. :)

Edited at 2016-05-12 11:55 am (UTC)
May. 12th, 2016 03:49 pm (UTC)
The DoD lands are fast becoming the only non-developed part of Vancouver. So, yeah, pretty easy to spot! :)

Yeah, I think Sam at that point was all impulse.

And yes, I cringed when the car fell in the bunker. I mean, transporting them, I understand, but did Chuck really need to drop them from a height? Dean is going to have to redo the suspension at the very least!

I forgot about Donatello praying - good catch. I knew he was muttering at the time, but then forgot between one scene and the next.

I just have no idea what they plan to do for S12! It'll be interesting to find out.
May. 12th, 2016 12:20 pm (UTC)
One think I liked that was mentioned in last week's ep, and came through in this week's ep as well, is that God, or Chuck, whatever He prefers, has no particular interest in Cas. He resurrected Cas for the Winchester's sake, because Dean liked him, and they needed the help.

Which if you think about it, would be rather sad for Cas. That like Metatron was the angel closest to the door, Cas just happened to be the one that got to Dean first.
And from God's perspective anything that makes Cas 'special', came from his interactions with the Winchesters and with Dean in particular.

I like this idea, because it genuinely puts the Winchesters at the center of everything. Which is something I've been missing int he show since s6
May. 12th, 2016 03:45 pm (UTC)
One think I liked that was mentioned in last week's ep, and came through in this week's ep as well, is that God, or Chuck, whatever He prefers, has no particular interest in Cas.

Yup, I find that interesting and I hope they explore it a little more in the next two episode. It flies in the face of/and destroys a headcanon that I was building up - but that's fine. The nice thing about being me is that I also like this version of the situation, for the very reasons that you mention.

I don't think it necessarily even has to be sad for Cas. I think it's a great message - because it's saying that in order to be "special" in order to MEAN something - you don't have to be special or mean something to the people in power, or those people that you idolize - instead, it's more important to be special and mean something to those that you're closest to and love.

I don't think that just any angel would have been as effected by Dean as Cas was - so it's not so much about being closet to the door, but being closest to the door and WHO YOU ARE - being closest to the door and the choices you make once you're "selected".
(no subject) - liliaeth - May. 12th, 2016 07:18 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - hells_half_acre - May. 12th, 2016 07:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
May. 12th, 2016 05:12 pm (UTC)
I think Sam was written weirdly this entire episode. While I thoroughly enjoyed Jensen's performance in his speech to God (EEEE, THE TEARS, IZ DED!), Dean's the atheist. He shouldn't be surprised that God let bad shit happen. Sam, on the other hand--the faithful one, the one that wants to believe God is present and cares--is all star-struck? Really? He's not appalled that God has been so absent and callous? I just didn't buy his goofy reactions.

And then for Sam to have nearly ZERO reaction to having to drag Lucifer--his tormentor for over a century--out of harm's way? Man, there are some serious emotional beats missing here.

I just hope we get some believable Sam POV next episode. It IS Berens writing, and he's been pretty adroit so far. So here's hoping!

Someone on an other site described Sam as the "scrappy sidekick" (and not in a positive light, either). Can't say I disagree.
May. 12th, 2016 05:47 pm (UTC)
Yes, agreed. I was just ranting to some friends about this over email. Sam needed better writing.

I was fine with the fanboy rambling reaction as an INITIAL reaction - but I needed him to move onto something more nuanced once the second scene occurred with him and Dean alone (ie: the scene where he just continued to be excited - talking about why planets are round (GRAVITY) and ears.) That would have been a better opportunity to have something with a little more gravity (ha, ironic) and would have also lead more smoothly into Dean telling Sam about his Amara vision, if they were already on series topics.

I do hope that Berens pulls through for us - especially on the fact that Sam's once again in the presence of Lucifer. Which, yes, missing emotional beats indeed.
(no subject) - quickreaver - May. 12th, 2016 06:10 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - liliaeth - May. 18th, 2016 03:47 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - percysowner - May. 18th, 2016 03:57 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - hells_half_acre - May. 18th, 2016 02:45 pm (UTC) - Expand
May. 12th, 2016 10:52 pm (UTC)
I absolutely adored Kevin’s cameo. Though a part of me wondered if Linda had gotten a head’s up before Chuck sent him on…

Also, this does (possibly) confirm the theory that the crowding of the veil was the switch Metatron flipped to ensure no more Prophets? Like…as long as Kevin’s soul remained on Earth, the next in line couldn’t be activated. I can’t remember if that came up here or elsewhere, but I thought of it when he got sent off and then the next guy woke up.

Also, agreed about the Supernatural Heaven Show.

I’m actually a little confused about Amara warding herself against Chuck--did she just do that while she was recovering from the smiting, so she could stage the confrontation when she was strong enough, and then forget to take it off? Because her whole thing has been ‘come find me.’ I’m not sure it makes sense that she’s hiding from him at the same time…

Also super pleased with the continuing mutual honesty from the boys.

So, here’s my question. Since when to Sam and Dean have Metatron saved in (at least one of) their phones? I mean, I can buy them not having changed numbers since Metatron could have known theirs, but how do they have his? And why were they so chill with taking the call/meeting up with him? Was there a deleted scene at some point that had them getting back in contact after Cas beat the crap out of him?

I love the firewall description, too!

That Dean and Amara conversation was SUPER CREEPY.

Oh, man, I didn’t even think about how their original plan would’ve had them leaving the car behind…

And Metatron gets a Redemption Equals Death moment, which I thought was actually pretty well handled.

Not a lot to say about this episode, even for me. Looking forward to where next week takes us.
May. 13th, 2016 12:06 am (UTC)
I wondered the same thing about Linda. :)

I'm thinking the same thing about the "switch" Metatron flipped in order to prevent new prophets - it also makes sense, given that after the angel's fell, Charlie went to heaven in Slumber Party, but then a few episodes later, Kevin informed us that heaven was closed. So, it wasn't tied to the angel's falling, but instead tied to Metatron preventing a new profit from being called upon by keeping Kevin's soul from reaching heaven and triggering the event.

Yeah, Amara warding herself against Chuck, but then wanting Lucifer to call him to where they are was strange - it would have made more sense if, instead of claiming that she was warded, Chuck just said that because they're equal in power, they can't sense where each other are... I mean, they're the most powerful beings in the universe - we would have accepted that explanation with a shrug.

So, here’s my question. Since when to Sam and Dean have Metatron saved in (at least one of) their phones?

Also, he was saved as "Scribe" which doesn't make any sense either. I can only assume that maybe they added him in way back in S8, pre-fall - and never changed the contact info, and Metatron somehow kept his old phone.

If I didn't comment on something, it's because I agree!
(no subject) - liliaeth - May. 13th, 2016 03:40 am (UTC) - Expand
May. 13th, 2016 08:37 pm (UTC)
Well, if we are only talking positive...

Amara's cleavage was better than usually.

* * *

I've been thinking if Kevin was a Christian and how could he had been a prophet otherwise, but it turns out it doesn't matter, because the Teenage Mutant Ninja Prophet was an atheist altogether.
May. 13th, 2016 09:16 pm (UTC)
Ah, yes, I didn't even notice the cleavage, which means I've either gotten used to it, or it was indeed improved so as to not be annoying. :)

And yeah, one of the things I like about the way the mythology works on the show is that it doesn't actually matter what your religion is - things are going to exist whether or not you believe in them, and they're going to screw you over whether or not you believe in them. :P
Romina M.
May. 13th, 2016 10:49 pm (UTC)
Weird is the first word that comes to my mind if you ask me about this episode. Overall I like it, and unlike other opinions, they were things that were on point, I mean Sam being a kind of believer has been stated since S1, and Dean being all skeptical since S1 as well. I always remember the episode Faith, when this different ideas were clarified. So for me, Sam babbling in front of God, and considering he was so eager to talk to him this season, is in character. And need to praise Jensen acting choices, I prefer he was heartbreaking instead of angry, it was more painful and emotional to see; I guess Dean has reached a point,he wants to save the world but don't know in whom to believe besides he and Sam, and probably Castiel.

As for the new prophet, is strange, in first place he wasn't one of those kidnapped by Crowley in S8, believe I would have remembered his name, besides I've been watching that season lately, so if I recall were about 7 prophets after Kevin and none were Donatello, either he changed his name, or along the way, God chose someone new? and second, they didn't keep him at the bunker, I wonder if Winchesters prefer to do things differently this time, after having seen what happened to Kevin. And now that was mentioned, why this new prophet was brought, and will he appear again? Felt sad Kevin was brought only few seconds to only send him to heaven, I wondered, and several people do, why he wasn't back to life? I'm trying to think myself that Kevin went through so much, that he deserves this "rest in peace boy".

Oh, something else that was questioned a lot, why God didn't cast out Lucifer from Castiel? Does he still needs Lucifer?
May. 14th, 2016 02:35 am (UTC)
Re: Weird
We have all the same thoughts! I was also fine with Sam's reaction - and thought it was in character (at least as an initial reaction) and I have all the same questions as you about the new prophet, and the same wonderings about Kevin and whether he got the end he deserved or not.

I'm also wondering about why God didn't offer to help Castiel - he could probably find a new vessel for Lucifer, even if he did need him - it's not like he doesn't know how important Castiel is to the Winchesters.

I guess though, that there wasn't really time for that - so hopefully they'll address that question in the next episode.
Re: Weird - liliaeth - May. 18th, 2016 03:51 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Weird - hells_half_acre - May. 18th, 2016 02:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
May. 14th, 2016 10:09 am (UTC)
A bit of offtopic
Did you hear the piece of news about showrunners?
What shall we expect of Dubb&Singer?
May. 14th, 2016 01:36 pm (UTC)
Re: A bit of offtopic
I did, yes!

I have to say that I kinda saw it coming. It'll be interesting for sure. Singer has been official/unofficial co-showrunner this whole time, so I see that as "nothing changed there".... Dabb, I'm not sure! I don't really have a firm grip on his personality or his thoughts on the direction of the show... so he is, indeed, an undiscovered country that we'll just have to wait and see!
Re: A bit of offtopic - elvit - May. 14th, 2016 02:06 pm (UTC) - Expand
May. 19th, 2016 01:57 am (UTC)
Always the last to the party…which means I’ll try hard not to repeat any of the comments above. ;) I do go through and read them to try to prevent that!

I have loved and missed Kevin fiercely since his last appearance in season 9. I was glad that he was finally released from the Veil – though my first thought was, “But you didn’t even tell his mom!” I mean, last time we saw them, she was taking his spirit home with her…I hope she’s ready for that transition!

I’m glad you pointed out Sam and Dean’s opposing in-character reactions to God. I was thinking the same thing. I think Ross-Leming and Buckner painted Sam’s response in kind of broad strokes, but Jared really sold it and made me believe it. I also thought of when Sam first met Cas, one of my favorite scenes in season 4. But that was pre-vessel of Lucifer, pre-hell, pre-Cage… As perilous as things seemed for them in season 4 when the angels showed up, the Winchesters were in pretty good shape at that point! :( Sam has changed so much since then. I’m a big believer in his rational optimism, which has come to light several times this season in his “save everyone” stance. But I do think he’s a different person than the sweet kid who tried to shake Castiel’s hand (ughhhh always gets me). I do agree with Quickreaver’s comment that there seemed to be some emotional beats missing.

I was thrilled that Dean let himself be angry. Because of course he would be! I wish they would have shown “The Prayer of Dean Winchester” in the Previouslys…”Please. I can’t. I need some help.” From the end of “My Bloody Valentine,” while Sam screams in the panic room. Heartbreak. A god who won’t answer that prayer is a god that I don’t care to hear any more from, thank you very much. Though as Borgmama said above, Dean is angry on behalf of humanity, not himself! Which rings very true.

When Chuck told Dean not to confuse him with his father…!!! I audibly gasped. I mean, really it was addressing the elephant in the (audience’s) room. We’ve all been doing that for seasons. The show came out and equated them explicitly, in one of those conversations with Castiel. But wow. I’m glad they let that moment sit and didn’t try to follow it up with dialogue. That’s a moment that needs to smolder. Jensen’s reaction shot was wonderful.
May. 19th, 2016 05:15 pm (UTC)
But that was pre-vessel of Lucifer, pre-hell, pre-Cage… As perilous as things seemed for them in season 4 when the angels showed up, the Winchesters were in pretty good shape at that point! :( Sam has changed so much since then. I’m a big believer in his rational optimism, which has come to light several times this season in his “save everyone” stance. But I do think he’s a different person than the sweet kid who tried to shake Castiel’s hand (ughhhh always gets me).

That's a very good point. And another point in favour of there being a secondary reaction that would be more nuanced. But alas...

I address some of this comment in my reply to your next one... so I'll just leave this one off here...

Though, I also concur with your hope that Linda Tran got a heads-up before her son's spirit was permanently taken from her. :P
May. 19th, 2016 01:57 am (UTC)
One thing that confused me…Chuck told the Winchesters that Amara was warded against him. My first thought was “He’s lying to them!” Because Amara spent most of the beginning of the season, you know, killing crowds and turning fountains to blood and massacring angels in order to GET GOD’S ATTENTION. But then when Dean sees her, she seems to be pissed that he could be leading God to her. So…what? Is this just a writer slip-up? Did Amara’s end-game change somewhere along the way? Did I miss a moving piece (that’s very possible)?

“Crap, I'm going to have to download the episode, because they might say how many days ago it was and I need that for the timeline”
The sacrifices made for an accurate timeline! Bless you!

I do not understand God’s plan to sacrifice himself. For one, it’s a dumb plan full of loopholes, for all the reasons Dean pointed out. For another thing, what motivation does he have to do so? Maybe I need to rewatch, but I remember him talking to Metatron in the previous episode about how humanity has to pass away because human nature is toxic, and Amara will consume them, ho-hum. Am I supposed to believe that one speech from Metatron made him do a 180? At the cost of his own existence? (Or freedom, I guess, if he’s still alive but in the Cage. Shudder.) I hope they do not try to make God a sympathetic character. I can’t believe I’m writing that, as someone who actually does believe in God. But the character of God in the Supernatural-verse has been selfish, small-minded, petty, cowardly, and arbitrary since the beginning. I’m getting whiplash from trying to figure out where his character is going now.

I also liked the “firewall between light and darkness” line. It makes no freaking sense for Chuck to say that, considering how many times Dean desperately needed his help and got absolutely nothing in return – but it was a beautiful line. Dean seems to be kind of freaked out by it, poor thing. I’m sure he doesn’t feel like much of a firewall after his time in hell, his time as a demon, his time with the Mark, etc.

“She's basically like a walking love-potion dementor/depression.”
Bizarre…but not untrue!! ;) Pretty accurate way of phrasing it!

I, too, was like “UMMMM SAM IS JUST GOING TO HOOK HIS ARM AROUND LUCIFER LIKE NO BIG?!?!?!” I will say, though, that Sam is amazing at doing whatever it takes to get the job done; I guess they both are. Maybe it was easier for him because it looked like Cas? But still. Yikes.

Please fill me in, because I just float at the edge of fandom without really plunging in – what is “Hammergate”?

Have a safe trip home!
May. 19th, 2016 01:58 am (UTC)
Oh, and sure enough, you DID cover Amara's warding above. Sorry! So is the consensus that we don't quite understand how that makes sense?
(no subject) - hells_half_acre - May. 19th, 2016 05:12 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - hells_half_acre - May. 19th, 2016 05:11 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kailita - May. 21st, 2016 02:07 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - hells_half_acre - May. 21st, 2016 06:13 am (UTC) - Expand
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