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Rewatch S10: Paper Moon 10x04

So, parts of the world are a very sad place right now - and my heart goes out to the people of Lebanon, France, and, of course, all those fleeing Syria.

Now, let's distract ourselves by watching TV!

Paper Moon

So, I remember not necessarily loving this episode the first go around. I mean, it was okay - don't get me wrong. But, yeah, not like, stellar... maybe a little boring? Anyway, we'll see how it fairs on a rewatch...

OH! Okay, already I had completely forgotten that it started out with Werewolves of London - I love this song.

I also really like her victim's eyes. I mean, he looks like a skeeze (which he's supposed to), but he's got a really pretty eye shape.

Dean: "Hey, there's something I need to ask you."
Sam: "Shoot."
Dean: "You've been kicked, bit, scratched, stabbed, possessed, killed - and you sprang your friggin' elbow?"
Sam: "Dude, it was more than a sprain and it was a friggin demon, but-"
Dean: "What? That sling come with a side of cry-baby pie on the side? Please."

- Aww cute.

Sam: "How you doing?"
Dean: "I'm golden, man."
Sam: "Come on."
Dean: "Seriously, I'm good. I mean, we've got three more cases of this stuff on ice in the trunk, taking some 'we time' - best decision we ever made."
Sam: "Hear that."
*cheers*
Dean: "See that thing in the paper this morning?"

- Oh Dean, you lasted 30 seconds.
- I do really love his use of 'we time' because... I mean, it just suits them so well that they don't have "me time" they have "we time" even though they literally already spend EVERY SINGLE DAY together. The only time they're separated is the 8 hours that they sleep at night... and that's only in the bunker where they have separate bedrooms.

Also, I love the No Hunting sign in the wide shots.

Sam: "Yeah, you're right. We should call some guys, have them fix it."
Dean: "Good, smart."
Sam: "Done."

- I mean, I know Dean is angling to get back to work here - but I kind of love the idea that the Winchesters CAN call up other hunters. I always liked the existence of a hunter network. I liked it when it was antagonistic back in S2 and I liked it when it was something that Bobby was seemingly the call-centre for in S6. I wouldn't say no to a Winchester retirement-plan that had them manning phones in the bunker and being what Bobby once was... (though my first choice for end of series is always the Winchesters ascending into legends themselves.)

Dean: "... but I need to work. I need this."
Sam: "If things go sideways - I mean like, an inch, you gotta give me the heads up."
Dean: "Done, you have my word."

- Oh Sam, what are you even going to do if they do go sideways? You can't live in denial of what the mark means forever - though, I don't blame you for trying to enjoy some time with your brother before reality comes crashing back in.
- Also, on a similar note, I love how they take off their sunglasses during the conversation. Dean takes off his right before he says he needs to work, and Sam takes off his right before he gives in. It's pretty much direct symbolism to them facing reality instead of hiding from it... and it totally reminds me of the sunglasses in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, if any of you know what I'm talking about.

Off to the Sheriff's department in nice looking uniforms.

And then it's off to the bar to interview the "unreliable" witness. I do like this version of the "assume we believe everything" speech - they're pretty good at it by now. It does take time away from the show, of course, to make it believable in that the witness wouldn't necessarily want to admit to seeing something supernatural unless he trusted that he wouldn't be laughed at.... but I also like that they included it, because I like things that show how proficient the boys are at their job. How they've DONE this speech before and how they know how to gain someone's trust quickly.

Dean: "This fleabag looks like she ain't done, chowing down on sons of anarchy just yet."
- Jensen chooses to say this line with REALLY weird phrasing. He pauses after "done" which is why I put the comma there, but really "she ain't done chowing down" is what he's actually trying to communicate, so why pause weirdly in the middle? I usually don't disagree with Jensen's phrasing, but I find this choice really bizarre because I think it jars the ability to understand what Dean is actually saying. Anyway, this is me being nitpicky, I know.. sorry, I get weird hang-ups about language sometimes.

Sam: "I guess she likes bad boys."
Dean: "Well, wait 'til she gets a load of us."

- Aw yiss.

Jared has such long legs. They're ridiculous. He's got legs up to his ears.

And then we see Kate.

I actually like this reveal... because Kate didn't know whether Sam and Dean watched the whole video, or what their reaction was. Also, Kate doesn't KNOW Sam and Dean like they know her. To her, they're these two weird guys that showed up asking questions as FBI, and then her friends and her followed them and discovered that they aren't FBI, but WOULD kill her boyfriend if they knew what he was... or her, in the end, if they knew what she was. But she never saw their lives like they saw hers. With the video, she showed them how she was with her friends and what kind of person she was, etc... it was a very one way street though. Really, in a bizarre way, they kind of have a celebrity relationship with her, where they know far more about her than she does about them - only, instead of being fans, they're people who may kill her because of what she is. She has no idea what they're personalities are like really. She has no idea where their sympathies lie. They could have chosen not to follow her, or they could simply be only catching up with her now after hunting her all this time.

Kate: "After what happened at school, I thought you decided to let me go."
Dean: "Yeah, that was before you started dropping bodies."
Kate: "What?"
Dean: "Guy at the bar...."

- I love what the actress does with her face here, because you can see Kate quickly put it all together and start realizing that if she wants to protect her sister, she's going to have to take the blame for the deaths.

Kate: "Whatever you're going to do, just do it."
*Dean raises gun*
*Sam stops him*
Sam: "You know what, let me do it."
Dean: "Why?"
Sam: "Because I think you should sit this one out."
Dean: "What are you talking about?"
Sam: "You're not ready, Dean."

- So, when Sam first pulled Dean away, I thought it might be because he saw that Kate was giving up WAY too easy - but nope, he's just worried about Dean getting a taste for killing again. Though, at the same time, if the Mark needs to be fed, maybe it's better to give Dean all the killing jobs.... but of course, it's hard to know cause and effect for certain, Dean killed plenty last season and still just got worse and worse in terms of his need to kill. So, Sam might have a point - or at least, his logic might not be that flawed.

But, the delay gives enough time for them to hear about another body while Kate is tied up.

And Kate runs away.

Poor Jared, having to do everything with one hand. The car door opening and closing looks so awkward.

Dean: "I gotta ask, what about you?"
Sam: "What about me what?"
Dean: "Are you ready?"
Sam: "Why wouldn't I be ready."
Dean: "Lester."
Sam: "Lester? You're serious, this is about Lester?"
Dean: "Don't get wrong, I'm not trying to start anything either, I'm just saying maybe we oughta talk about THAT."

- Oh Dean, you are basically saying "My problems?! What about YOUR PROBLEMS?!" all defensively. Sam does not have the same degree of problems as you do. It is like worrying about the scratch on your brother's cheek when you just had your arm cut off.

Awkward times in the car...

Sam: "They guy that you then killed, that's who we're talking about?"
Dean: "I was a demon."
Sam: "Oh, you were a demon! I didn't realize that!"

- Bwhahaha... I love sarcastic Sam.

Oh man, so awkward - it really does feel like being stuck in the room during someone's family fight, which, you know, is exactly what we are.

And we meet Kate's sister...

Dean: "Kate, why is your sister a werewolf? WHY?!"
- Oh man, yeah, I mean, Kate's tragic backstory aside, it's pretty clear there's only one way her sister would end up being a werewolf.

Sam: "Put the gun done!"
Dean: "So she can run again!?"
Sam: "She just saved our lives."
*Dean puts down the gun*

- I copied all that out just because I want to say how much I love Dean's face in this exchange.

Sam: "Okay, Kate, if this wasn't you... then who was it? Your sister? Your sister do this, Kate?"
- Sam knows. Sam knows exactly what's going on and exactly why Kate took the blame last night and exactly why she's not answering his question right then. Ah the parallels. And Sam's going to have to face this same conundrum himself again this season.

Kate gives us her "what I've been doing the past two years" story.

So, yeah, the way they've changed the werewolf myth in the show since S8 is kind of... odd, in that they don't necessarily always follow their own rules. BUT, that being said, it does kinda make sense that anyone Kate bit wouldn't necessarily be as strong at resisting the curse as Kate... and then people that Tasha bit would be even worse, and if they bit people then those people would probably end up like Madison in S2, who only turned at the full moon with no control and no memory.

And the super anvil paralleling continues, with Kate promising that if she can't get Tasha under control, she's "take care of it"

Dean: "Take care of it? You know what that means?"
Kate: "Why don't you ask Brian?"

- Brian wasn't your sister, Kate, he was a creepy dude - and therefore easier to kill, I'd imagine.

Then Dean lies and says they have a cure for werewolves, and I kinda hate him for it - because I really hate when people give people false hope... like, meanly... like WITH FULL KNOWLEDGE THEY'RE FILLING SOMEONE WITH MISPLACED HOPE. Because it's not just Tasha that's a werewolf, and being a werewolf has RUINED Kate's life. I mean, she's basically a homeless drifter now. Yay.

Sam: "How can you possibly blame Kate for fighting for her sister, we do it all the time?!"
Dean: "Right, and that's worked wonders for us."
Sam: "While we're still here, aren't we?"
Dean: "Yeah, but is it right? I mean all that you've done for me, I've still got this Mark."
Sam: "And we'll take care of that too, but you can't take everything that's happened to us, to you, and dump it at these girls' feet."

- So, it's kind of interesting, because Dean here brings up the big question that Sam and Dean have been dancing around for years - is placing each other's safety above the rest of the world's safety RIGHT? - only, he then immediately dances away from it again by implying that it's only not right because it didn't even WORK because Dean's still in danger. It's REALLY bizarre logic.
- And then Sam sort of weirdly dances around it too, because what is even Dean dropping at their feet? The fact that HE'S not cured, HE still has bloodlust, so there's no stopping Tasha? Or that he eventually succumbed to the Mark, so therefore Kate will eventually succumb to her hunger for human hearts?

Sam: "I gotta tell you something, I uh, I lied... about Lester."
Dean: "What?"
Sam: "There were others."
Dean: "Other humans?"
Sam: "No, no no. I'm sure there other hunters I rubbed - or I punched - the wrong way, but... nah, I pretty much saved my best stuff for the bad guys. But you gotta understand something, Dean. I watched you die, and I carried you- I carried your corpse to your room and I put your dead body on your bed and then you just-"
Dean: "Yeah."
Sam: "Yeah."

- Both Sam and Dean have had to do this with each other now - Sam's had to handle Dean's dead body twice, Dean's only had one time where there was an actual corpse. They both have full knowledge of what it means, what it feels like, to lose each other in a bloody and horrible way and have a dead body there instead of their brother. I think that's different then the times they've "died" by disappearing bodily into a section of the afterlife.
- What I also love it about it is that this sort of alludes to the different reactions they have in the face of each other's deaths. Dean, we've seen, tends to just shut down and withdraws from the world. He does everything he can to bring Sam back, if there's anything he can do, but beyond that, he tends to sort of just check-out mentally. But Sam always tends to not shut-down, but instead become a rage filled kill monster revenge machine.

Dean: "I know. I guess I was hoping that note would fill in the blanks."
Sam: "Don't look for me? THAT note? Yeah, that was really informative, thanks."
Dean: "Yeah, I'm-"
Sam: "What?"
Dean: "It's embarassing, you know."
Sam: "What's embarassing?"
Dean: "All of it. The note. Crowley. Everything."
Sam: "Dean, you were a demon."
Dean: "I was a demon?! Oh, thanks, I didn't- I didn't realize."
Sam: "Shut-up"
Dean: "Not to mention, I never even said thank you, so..."
Sam: "You don't ever have to say that, not to me."

- Awww, they made up.
- I also really like the fact that they made Dean embarassed - that's... it's funny, actually, because I don't think that we see a lot of drama-heros being embarassed... I mean, sometimes, but only when it's played for comedy, and it's the sort of awkward endearing embarassement. Not this more rare, 'my bad behaviour over the past few months is embarassing to me now.'
- But, all the things Dean lists are things that Dean WOULD be embarassed by - thinking that Sam would actually ACCEPT a note like that? - palling (and perhaps more) around with Crowley? That's another thing that Dean would never do in his right mind.... it's very much, actually, like Dean got super drunk at a party and had a super embarassing one night stand.
- And of course, I love how Sam basically tells him the Winchester equivalent of "you were drunk, it doesn't count"... and I love Dean's call back to Sam's earlier sarcasm.
- Finally, the fact that Dean expresses appreciation for what Sam did, and Sam tells him that it's not needed. Yeah, good moment there.

Dean betrays Kate...

Kate: "But she can be saved!"
Dean: "No, Tash is in too deep. You don't ever come back from that. Not ever."

- Yeah, because that's not foreboding when it comes to your own situation, Dean.

Into the cabin...

Sam is having feelings.

And they get ambushed.

Showdown time.

Werewolf dude: "On your knees!"
Dean: "Well, I'm awfully flattered-"

- Oh, Dean... you never get tired of that joke. :P

Then Tasha and Kate have their moment... and Kate kills her, which is the right thing to do, because Tasha is psycho.

Meanwhile, Sam kills too werewolves while only using one arm.

Sam: "...maybe we jumped back in too fast, I mean, Dean - you were a demon! You still have the Mark. Didn't you ever want to talk about it?"
Dean: "Talk about it?! Talk about it how?"
Sam: "Come on, man."
Dean: "I AM coming on. Look, I know what happened. I was there, remember? I'm not trying to get by it, that's not what this was about."
Sam: "Then what was this about?"
Dean: "It was about getting back in the saddle, doing something good. Not stewing in my own crap."
Sam: "What if you're not ready?"

- Awww... Dean just wants to get past what happened. Sam wants Dean to basically have a bit of therapy so that he can be certain that Dean's mentally sound. Neither of them are right or wrong.

Kate calls...

Sam: "For what it's worth, thank you. At the end of the day, she was your sister."
Kate: "No, she wasn't."

- And that's a fun parallel, because demon-cure aside, would Sam be able to recognize that Demon!Dean wasn't really his brother anymore? I don't think he ever really did... he could only ever see his brother needing to be saved. If they hadn't have had the cure, what would Sam have done? Would he be able to do what Kate did? This is the more ominous question of the episode.
- If they can't cure the Mark, would Sam be willing to kill Dean? (assuming that he could, somehow do so, which I don't think he can.) We never really have to explore that avenue, because, much like before, Sam never entertains the notion of a world where he can't save Dean, where he has to answer that question. Sam's moral quandries are always HOW FAR he's willing to go to save/protect Dean, not what he will have to do if he can't save him. I mentioned this in 10x03 rewatch, but it's pretty much the opposite of Dean's S2 dilemna, in that he wrestles with the idea that he might have to kill Sam, he's terrified of it. Sam never gets to this level of terror because he never lets himself imagine a world where he is unsuccessful at saving Dean. I think that's part of the reason he turns into such a revenge killing rage machine whenever he fails to do so (beginning of S8 aside, because that was so OOC for Sam and I still hate the writers for it, as does Jared (as a reliable source tells me after having asked him about it).)

Dean: "See you around, kid."
Kate: "I sure as hell hope not."

- Yup, the only adequate response to that when you are a monster and you are talking to the Winchesters.

Dean: "Let's say you're right."
Sam: "About what?"
Dean: "Everything. Maybe I'm not ready to hunt. But I'm just trying to do the right thing, man, because I'm so sick and tied of doing the wrong one."

- Oh man... yeah, I forgot how S9 was basically just a series of huge mistakes made by Dean. And he's still living with the consequences, I mean, the consequences are BRANDED ON HIS ARM. Luckily, this season Sam takes back over as the family fuckup. Poor Sam.

So there was plenty of interesting stuff in there! No worries. Memory is a funny thing.



The next episode I do will be Fan Fiction, which has some special features associated with it. I MAY try to do it tomorrow, but we'll see.

Comments

( 14 comments — Leave a comment )
borgmama1of5
Nov. 15th, 2015 10:59 am (UTC)
This was an awkward episode for me,primarily because of how heavy-handed the parallel was...could you hit me over the head any harder? Plus the whole 'Sam/Lester makes Sam worse than Dean' always bothered me...I mean, that was pretty low, but to say that one incident makes Sam worse than demon!Dean? IDK...and yet they never showed us demon!Dean killing anyone other than Lester and a bunch of demons...part of the 'telling instead of showing' problem show does too much...and the whole 'you're not ready' bit from Sam to Dean seems forced to me, again Sam saying words that aren't reflected in action (until a lot later in the season, so Sam is kind of right but at this point I don't see the basis for his worry...)
hells_half_acre
Nov. 15th, 2015 03:52 pm (UTC)
Agreed completely on all points.
supernutjapan
Nov. 15th, 2015 01:43 pm (UTC)
I think this ep is better on rewatch - and it's one of those good review eps because there is a lot of angst and anvils/parallels to talk about LOL The story is not as exciting, and that's usually what we want to enjoy on first watch. But that's just my opinion :D

it's pretty much the opposite of Dean's S2 dilemna, in that he wrestles with the idea that he might have to kill Sam, he's terrified of it. Sam never gets to this level of terror because he never lets himself imagine a world where he is unsuccessful at saving Dean. I think that's part of the reason he turns into such a revenge killing rage machine whenever he fails to do so

So, you are kind of implying here that Dean shuts down when he is unable to save Sam because he was 1) terrified of having to kill Sam and 2) he let himself imagine a world where he is unsuccessful. Whereas Sam becomes the "revenge killing rage machine" because he doesn't do these things.

I disagree. I don't think Dean was terrified of having to kill Sam. I think he knew all along that he wouldn't be able to do it, and THAT is what terrified him if anything.

I think a person can get the life knocked out of them for the very reason that they had believed until the end that they would be able to save a person. I can totally understand that because that's how I react. (for instance, I completely shut down when a review I've almost finished gets wiped off my computer/LJ memory. I think I'd react very similarly for something more serious too ;P)

I think that Sam has tended to blame someone else for things that went wrong while Dean always blamed himself. Dean shut down when Sam died in Season 2 because he blamed himself for not being able to take care of Sam. Sam became a "revenge killing rage machine" because he blamed Dean's death on Lilith. Basically he focused his grief outward, while Dean focused it inward.

Sam wasn't a "revenge killing rage machine" at the end of Season 9. He was more like Dean at the end of Season 2 there, deciding to call Crowley for who knows what crazy deal. But when he found out that Dean was gone, then he went berzerk and possibly became the "revenge killing rage machine."

As you mentioned last ep though, Sam did entertain the possibility that he might have to kill Demon!Dean. He never told Cas, "No. I can never kill my brother. I will save him no matter what." like Dean told Sam in Season 2, did he? I don't think he did.
hells_half_acre
Nov. 15th, 2015 04:09 pm (UTC)
So, you are kind of implying here that Dean shuts down when he is unable to save Sam because he was 1) terrified of having to kill Sam and 2) he let himself imagine a world where he is unsuccessful. Whereas Sam becomes the "revenge killing rage machine" because he doesn't do these things.

No. What I meant was that Sam becomes a revenge machine because being unsuccessful is an enraging shock. Dean shutting down, however, has nothing to do with is feelings before Sam's death or the reasons for Sam's death. I think that's just Dean's reaction to Sam dying regardless.

I don't think Dean was terrified of having to kill Sam. I think he knew all along that he wouldn't be able to do it, and THAT is what terrified him if anything.

I agree, that's what I meant by him being terrified of having to kill Sam... he was terrified of having to do it, because he knew that he's incapable of it.

Basically he focused his grief outward, while Dean focused it inward.

I agree, though I don't necessarily think that Sam isn't blaming himself AS WELL as other people, but Sam can't murder himself, because Dean would get mad at him, so Sam murders everyone else who is to blame.

Sam wasn't a "revenge killing rage machine" at the end of Season 9. He was more like Dean at the end of Season 2 there, deciding to call Crowley for who knows what crazy deal.

And I sort of disagree with this. We also saw Sam trying to make deals in between S3 and S4 - but he does it AGGRESSIVELY. When Dean made his deal, he did so desperately, but not violently. Sam does EVERYTHING full of anger and violence when Dean isn't around.

Yes, he was relatively calm (which could be interpreted as withdrawn) when he was summoning Crowley - but I don't think he was going to meekly make some deal, I don't think he was going to offer anything in exchange for Dean's life. I think he was going to beat the shit out of Crowley until Crowley fixed what he broke in order to save himself rather than take anything else from Sam. But, then, this is all just conjecture, since Sam never actually tells us what the game plan is besides the fact that he's blaming Crowley for everything.

As you mentioned last ep though, Sam did entertain the possibility that he might have to kill Demon!Dean. He never told Cas, "No. I can never kill my brother. I will save him no matter what." like Dean told Sam in Season 2, did he? I don't think he did.

No, he never said those words, but I think he never said them because that was already his accepted reality. Like, you can I don't go around declaring that we'll never abuse children, because of COURSE we won't.

And I think we saw clearly in the last ep that Sam DIDN'T entertain the possibility that he might have to kill Dean UNTIL that episode... so he had months and months of trying to save Dean without imagining a scenario in which he couldn't.

He only had to cope with the idea of failure when failure seemed to be what was happening - similar to 4x22 when Dean was confronted with a demon-blood filled Sam and had suddenly to grapple with the idea that Sam might not survive the detox process and whether or not Dean would be okay with that... and Dean had to wrestle with the question of whether Sam was even Sam anymore, etc. So, both boys have been in the shoes Sam was in last episode.
supernutjapan
Nov. 15th, 2015 11:44 pm (UTC)
I definitely agree that Sam blames himself as well. Focusing it outward is just how he deals with it. Come to think of it, Sam blamed Crowley for Dean's death from the start because Crowley was the one that led Dean to getting the MoC. And yeah, I think you are right - Sam was probably not going to beg for a deal.
shadowsong26
Nov. 15th, 2015 08:10 pm (UTC)
I'm with you on this episode--I remember it as decent but not stellar. It's interesting, though, because there's usually one or two episodes I don't like/can't rewatch for whatever reason in each season, but S10...I mean, there were weaker episodes, but I can't think of one I wouldn't want to rewatch. I guess the quality was a little more even than usual? IDK.

Totally with you on the 'we time' bit. Very adorable.

Also agreed about the hunter network being awesome. In general, I really like things that expand the world, because there's so much world to play in in a universe like SPN.

Interesting comments, about how much Sam and Dean know about Kate vs how much they know about her...especially since her first episode was an Outsider POV type episode (like, we watched her and her friends learn about Sam and Dean, but you're right that in retrospect it's not a lot, but because we/the audience know so much, we forget that Kate and co couldn't fill in the blanks the way we can), so we might assume the opposite relationship than they actually have.

I love sarcastic Sam, too.

With you on Dean lying to Kate here being awful. I'm really glad they've started an upturn in the way they handle civillians in S11...I mean, this isn't quite as big a Thing as hosts/vessels is, but still.

They do sort of dance around the 'saving each other vs saving the world' question here...I'd forgotten about that.

Agreed with all your comments about the boys' reactions to each others' deaths.

And with everything you said about Dean's embarassed reaction to being a demon. Also, I love that he throws Sam's sarcasm back in his face and that's how they make up.

Meanwhile, Sam kills too werewolves while only using one arm.

I love this. I think I mentioned in the quick reactions, but I really love competence porn (when it doesn't drift into boring-can-never-fail territory), and Sam gets a lot of it here.

Sam's moral quandries are always HOW FAR he's willing to go to save/protect Dean, not what he will have to do if he can't save him.

Agreed with all of this paragraph, but this sentence especially. (And the timejump between S7 and S8...I mean, I can backfill a justification for it, because it's canon and I have to, but...yeah. It doesn't make all that much sense.)

And agreed about your summation of the episode and this season vs last season, and how Sam and Dean have traded off being the family fuckup...but, yes! There was more in this episode than I remembered, too. Looking forward to the next rewatch!
hells_half_acre
Nov. 15th, 2015 10:31 pm (UTC)
You agreed with everything I said! Hahah, I've got nothing to respond to, besides the fact that you articulated a few things better than I did. :)

I also backfill a justification for Sam's behaviour between S7-S8, which is basically what I wrote in Part 1 of Purgatory, Prophets, and Potions - only without the wizards.

I did once try to write a non-crossover version of it from Cas's POV, but I apparently really suck at writing Cas' POV, so abandoned it.

And yes, competence porn is fantastic. Also, I realize now I wrote "too" instead of "two" but I am too lazy to go back and correct it. :P
metallidean_grl
Jan. 3rd, 2016 09:43 pm (UTC)
I liked this episode, thought it was okay. There were some times where the episode plodded along and I lost interest a little bit. But it was interesting to see the brothers trying to get back into the groove of things after being apart for many months, and after Dean became human again. There was an awkwardness between the two in the beginning, played out nicely by the Js. I liked your thoughts about them removing the sunglasses when they decided to take the case. I hadn't thought of that symbolism, but it fits. Them facing their reality instead of hiding from it. I also like the fact that they are now a part of the Hunter call system, so to speak. We have seen that numerous times over the years of them calling other hunters for help or advice. It is nice to see the brothers more a part of that community instead of on the outskirts of it. And YES, I do wish for them as well that they will someday become legends in the Hunter community and spoke of reverently and in awe and respect by other hunters.

The Kate/Tasha & Dean/Sam parallel was extremely overt. Maybe something a little more subtle would have been better, but we all got the point. Interesting point about Kate not knowing Dean & Sam, while the brothers know much more about her. Her not having any idea the true reason why they are there and jumping to the conclusion that they will kill her is the logical path to go down. She picked up on it quickly though.

The scene where Kate revealed what she had been doing the past two years was slow. This is where I lost interest. They could have cut half that scene and we still could have gotten the same information, while giving us some other more pertinent scenes, like more talk between the brothers. I would have appreciated that more than the Kate back story. She is a minor character and I really didn't care too much about her story. I care more for Dean and Sam's story.

That being said, the final talk they had in the car was pitch perfect. Dean being embarrassed about his behavior while a demon was very endearing. And while he was a demon, Dean didn't think so, but Sam knew the "real" Dean, Sam knew that Dean would not like or appreciate how he behaved and the things that the did, so Sam was determined, focused, to get his brother back, no matter the cost, because he knew his brother, and couldn't bear to have his brother behave so uncharacteristically. That was always the main thing that bothered me about Dean becoming a demon. He was the one person in the group that was never tainted by being possessed or influenced by something "supernatural." I liked that about Dean. But when they made him a demon that was no longer the case. Although I didn't mind the arc of him being a demon, I still wish that Dean could have remained the one person never to have been affected by the supernatural in this way.

Interesting narrative about if Sam would ever be able to kill his brother. Much like Dean in S2, I never believed that Dean would be able to go through with it, and I do believe the same with Sam. I honestly don't think either brother would be able to kill the other. If Cas had not shown up when he did in episode 3, I still think Sam would have drawn his knife away and not killed Dean. Thankfully, Cas did show up and was able to diffuse the situation. Although in S6, I do think Dean reached the point where Dean knew that he would have to kill Sam, thankfully Death stepped in and brought his soul back, but at that time Dean knew there was no other way. He couldn't keep Sam locked up forever, especially if he knew there would be no chance of getting his soul back, and he probably would have exhausted all avenues in trying to do so. Once those avenues had been explored I do think he probably would have killed him. I think that is really the only time that one brother would have killed the other. (Yes, I still hate the writers for writing an OOC Sam for half the year.) It's interesting to hear that Jared didn't care for it as well.

All in all an average episode.
hells_half_acre
Jan. 3rd, 2016 09:57 pm (UTC)
Agreed agreed agreed... I too think that we could have done with less Kate backstory and more brother talk.

And yeah, it's always a bit of a shame when they break a streak like that - making Dean also have experience with his mind/body being altered/controlled by something other than his own natural reason.

Although in S6, I do think Dean reached the point where Dean knew that he would have to kill Sam, thankfully Death stepped in and brought his soul back, but at that time Dean knew there was no other way. He couldn't keep Sam locked up forever, especially if he knew there would be no chance of getting his soul back, and he probably would have exhausted all avenues in trying to do so. Once those avenues had been explored I do think he probably would have killed him.

This is a good point. I think it boils down to whether or not their brother is still "in there" - because I think you're right, I think Dean MAY have killed Sam's body, but was he killing Sam in doing so? Was Soulless!Sam still Sam? Or is Sam entirely a product of his soul/empathy, not his reason/intelligence. With Sam's soul in the cage, Sam could be perceived as already being dead.

In this case, Dean is still in possession of his soul, it has just been twisted into demon form. So, if Sam kills him, he is killing both Dean AND Dean's soul, which Sam can conceivably untwist if the ritual works. So, I don't think Sam WOULD kill him, he'd rather continue to find a way to cure him... but if he couldn't cure him? Well, then yeah, maybe he'd kill him

Rather than S6, I'd look to S4 to find a comparison going the other direction - when Sam was hooked on demonblood and acting very strongheaded and not himself... and Dean feared that Sam might be more monster than Sammy... and he DID fear that he might have to kill him, if Sam's detox didn't work. (Or, that the detox would kill him, and so, Dean forbidding him from drinking more blood was the same as killing him.) So, yeah, I guess it comes down to whether the brother is irrevocably changed into something monstrous with no cure.
metallidean_grl
Jan. 4th, 2016 04:46 am (UTC)
Good point about S4. That hadn't dawned on me. Near the end of S4 Dean was at that crossroads where he would be willing to have Sam die rather than Sam live as the monster drinking demon blood.

Good point about whether or not one of them was more or less irredeemable. So in S4 was Sam irrevocably changed?? I would say there was still some humanity in him, although I would say there is some debate about that. S6 he was definitely not Sam, and would have only gotten worse, especially if he would have gotten away with killing Bobby. Demon Dean was still a possibility to change, so with each scenario it really could have gone either way. the question then raises - would the brother been able to go through with it and kill the other?
hells_half_acre
Jan. 4th, 2016 04:53 am (UTC)
I didn't mean that S4 Sam was irrevocably changed - I meant that THAT was the question that Dean was debating back then. Did Sam still have humanity? Was it possible for Sam to get off the demonblood? If he couldn't get off the demonblood would he continue to have humanity or would he get worse and worse until Dean didn't know who he was anymore? Dean didn't know the answers to any of those questions, which was why he was in such turmoil about what action he should follow.

But whether either of the brothers could go through with it and kill the other, I have no idea.
metallidean_grl
Jan. 4th, 2016 05:18 am (UTC)
Agreed. I understood what you meant about Sam. That was what was so good about S4, the slow but sure turning of Sam and him losing his humanity but not realizing what was up, and Dean's conflict about what to do with Sam. The turmoil that Dean was going through and talked about with Bobby in 'The Rapture' depicted this only too well. And whether or not either brother would be willing and able to go through with killing the other will be an age old question that I hope we never have to see put to the test again.
borgmama1of5
May. 29th, 2017 05:05 pm (UTC)
Interesting to reread after doing another rewatch...

It occurred to me while watching Sam's relentless determination to save Dean in this season that he must be having flashbacks to being unable to save Dean from going to hell in season 3--so how much of Sam's 'saving Dean is the only option' mindset is because Sam didn't save him the first time?
hells_half_acre
May. 29th, 2017 06:06 pm (UTC)
I think a good portion of it is. I get into that at the end of the season. I mean, Sam's ALWAYS had a single-minded drive to save Dean, even before he failed to (Mystery Spot)... and we've seen him make questionable decisions before in order to do so as well (Ruby 1.0) - BUT, I think rather than learning a lesson there, he's just double-down. Because Dean was back when he fell for Ruby 2.0's lies, I'm not sure he associates his actions with Dean's death - though, again, his single-minded drive to kill Lilith was still because he had failed to save Dean.

So, if any of that made sense, it's that Sam has always been single-minded when it comes to saving Dean, and has always had the capacity to compromise his morals in order to do so - the problem is that he's never learned his lesson in that regard and the constant failure is only making matters worse. I mean, this was basically what his suicide task in S8 was about as well - both saving Dean from doing the tasks and also atoning for what he saw as his sins of failure to his brother.
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