Okay, I'm officially declaring that S8 rewatch is going to take me longer than my other rewatches. It takes me about 4 hours to get through one episode and despite being currently unemployed, I STILL don't have that kind of time most days. So, you'll have to be a little patient with me - but hey, at least this gives you more time to read them!
Anyway, on with the episode!
What's up, Tiger Mommy?
So, some people had trouble with this episodes title, because "tiger mommy" has become a bit of a stereotype for asian mothers - even though the term is relatively new. I think, though, that like Kevin's set-up, Supernatural is using the term on purpose because it brings the stereotype immediately to mind - they want you thinking you're going to get one thing, so that they can subvert it and give you another...basically show you how Kevin's mother is so much more three dimensional. Whether or not they succeed in this endeavour is another matter, of course.
FYI: I'm going to be referring to Mrs. Tran as Linda when I write out the dialogues, because it is quicker and that's her name.
Anyway, onto Mr. Villi in Chicago getting his safe box from the bank.
Safe boxes have always fascinated me - because first you have to have someone worth putting in them, and then you have to trust someone else with your stuff. I'm not very trusting.
Frost giant finger! And a "withdrawal" - poor woman who works at the bank.
To the Winchesters (and Kevin)!
Dean: "Okay then, what's the problem?"
Kevin: "Channing's broken neck is my problem! As in I'd rather not see my mom's broken corpse twisted into a corkscrew."
Sam: "Kid's got a point, Dean."
Dean: "Stay out of this. Kevin, your mom's fine."
- It's kind of hilarious how Dean's refuses to let Kevin be motivated by his fridged girlfriend. Like, 'you're still upset about that? It happened, like, a WHOLE DAY ago!' Seriously, Dean, try to have a LITTLE empathy maybe. I know you are horribly broken, but other people have feelings too - and Kevin is basically Sam 7 seasons and 9 years ago.
Dean: "In fact, he's probably got the house stacked with bodyguards right now, protecting her, so that when you do show up, they'll pounce on you both."
Kevin: "Is that supposed to make me feel better?"
- No, but I can't help but think that if you listened to Dean here, your mom would still be alive, Kevin. I mean, seriously, Crowley supposedly kills her for information, which she wouldn't have had if he had left her alone - now, you could argue that as soon as he tracked Kevin down, he'd use her for leverage so maybe the it's a moot point. Maybe the fault is that Kevin sent her away from the house-boat. Maybe no matter what, she was going to kick it. But, I DO see Dean's point, especially since right now he believes that closing the gates of hell is going to be a relatively simple task.
Sidenote: I hate the term "short and curlies"
And we get out first shot of Kevin's new mother. Otherwise known as Lauren Tom, aka Amy from Futurerama! I love that show.
Dean: "Yeah, well Carl has filled your mom's mail box three times since we've been sitting here."
Kevin: "He's a demon?"
- Continuity error: Kevin USED to have the ability to see demon's true faces, back when he first turned prophet. Suddenly, he can't anymore. I guess they made him too powerful to begin with and they had to reduce him in this season - can't see demons anymore, can't read tablets as fast as he used to...can't track down found tablets by instinct either.
Kevin's been gone for a year now... his mother has worried herself so much she turned into a new actress!
I love Dean's little wave to the demon as a distraction for Sam stabbing them to death. I just kind of like the thought that the last thing some demons see is Dean giving them a sweet smile and a wave. It's a relatively nice way to go!
Sam: "Mrs. Tran, your friend was processed by a demon."
Kevin: "Have you ever seen the Exorcist?"
Linda: "Is that what you've been doing all year? Watching television?"
- Oh, jokes.
Sam: "Look, it's best if you let us handle this."
Linda: "I understand, but it's not MY soul I'm worried about, it's my son's."
Dean: "Kevin, you want to back us up here? We came all the way down here to pull her out of the fire and now she wants to jump right back in."
Kevin: "Think I can tell her what to do?"
- I like this line too. Seriously, can anyone tell their parents what to do? I certainly can't.
Dean: "...and uh, you're going to have to get inked up."
Kevin: "Do what now?"
Sam: "Yeah, uh, you too, shortstop. Keeps the demons out."
Linda: "Yeah, like it's my first tattoo."
- And Dean suddenly liked Mrs. Tran.
Then we get the Mrs. Tran is a badass segment. Where Kevin sounds like he's in labour while getting a tattoo.
Dean: "How'd you do that reverse exorcism thing?"
Sam: "Just said the verse backwards."
- I love Sam.
And of course the tablet has been stolen... I love how Sam knows something is wrong as soon as he sees the diaper bag, but Dean's just like "Kevin's so weird."
I think this is one of my favourite purgatory flashbacks. I love how Dean just goes into interrogator mode.
Sam: "Hey, Dean, *knocks twice on desk* come on!"
- I also love Sam's reaction. He's actually just calm about it, makes a noise to try to pull Dean out - even if he's doing it instinctively, it's still a cool reaction.
I love the camera angles they used for the flashback too - how you see Dean from the monsters pov. Again, it all filters back to my love of Winchesters as Legends and Outsider POVs. The truth is the Winchesters are scary as fuck, Dean especially, because Sam (when souled) tends to be a bit more moral.
Dean: "Hey, Lyle, I've had a really really bad day today, so I'm not in the mood to dilly dally. If you want to do this the rough way, I am happy to oblige."
- I just love the fact that Dean used "dilly dally" and "oblige" in one sentence.
Linda: "Is that your car outside?"
Lyle: "What's it to you, Mail-Order?"
Dean: "Hey! Pal!"
- I actually missed this racist comment the first time I watched. Man, Lyle's a douchebag.
I really like Sam doing math in his head that fast. Goddamn! Talk dirty-math to me, Sammy. I can't do math in my head, I can't actually even comprehend spoken numbers in my head. I have to write them out slowly and THEN I can understand them. Same with reading numbers. It's a very small problem though, at worst, it just makes me look like an idiot whenever the mechanic asks me how many klicks are on the odometer.
And then we get Mr. Peanut...otherwise known as Bo. And the auction premise for the episode.
Sam: "Huh. Well..."
Dean: "No, say it and I will kill you, your children and your grandchildren!"
- I'm kind of with Dean on this one. I can't believe that Sam would actually even think about selling the Impala. I know he loves it almost as much as Dean does, given how he has been seen to lovingly caress it, or the fact that the memories associated with it gave him the power to overcome Lucifer and save the world.
- That being said, if the Winchesters were filling out a loan application, the Impala IS their only asset.
- Also, Sam doesn't have any children or grandchildren, and the way Dean insists they keep living probably means that he never will. :P
Sam: "So all we gotta do is get Kevin close enough to memorize the spell."
Dean: "What do you think, Brainiac? Think you can swing it?"
Linda: "Of course he can swing it, if the bumperstickers on my Previa mean anything."
- It's interesting that Kevin doesn't actually answer for himself. I think he might already know that the tablet is far more complicated than the leviathan tablet and that he probably won't be able to do it - but he probably figures that they don't have much of a choice if they want to try to get the tablet back. Or, it could be the prophet instincts are still there, insisting he do everything in his power to get his hands on the tablet again, even if that means walking into a possible trap.
Dean: "I'll be back for this"
- Back to my not trusting anyone, but I can't BELIEVE Dean tried to bring the demon knife into the auction house...and if I were him, I'd go out and put it in the car or something. Anything is safer than a cardboard box given to people you don't know. :P
And the tablet is covered...
Sam: "It's okay, we've just gotta come up with a plan B"
Crowley: "And what, pray tell, could have possibly been plan A? Bring the prophet to the most dangerous place on earth and then va-moose? Hello, boys."
- Oh Crowley.
Sam: "He's right, Dean, it's not worth it."
Crowley: "Listen to Moose, Squirrel"
- I loved Rocky and Bulwinkle as a kid. So, yeah, love this. Plus Crowley kind of reminds me of Boris.
Sam: "Nice right hook"
- Sam is so GIANT compared to Linda Tran. It's hilarious and awesome. Sometimes the human race kind of amazes me - the differences in the species is kind of awesome.
Samandriel: "Dean Winchester?"
Dean: "Do I know you?"
Samandriel: "No, but I knew Castiel."
Dean: "You're an angel?"
Samandriel: "This was the nearest vessel. It's short notice. We don't usually come to things like this, but ah..."
- Dude, I completely forgot that Samandriel/Alfie was in this episode. Otherwise known as "the kid from bugs" haha. He's a cutie.
- When it comes to Samandriel, I know a lot of fandom liked to view him as young and like a little brother to Cas - but I preferred to think of Samandriel as a very powerful old angel, forced, on short notice, to ride around in a teenager. I think it adds a cool dichotomy to his character - not that we actually end up learning much about him, given that his subsequent appearances are just all him screaming.
- Back to Dean though, I love the way his whole demeanor changes when Samandriel mentions Castiel and Dean realizes that he's an angel. He first checks to make sure Sam's gone into the room - it's interesting. Like, maybe Dean just doesn't want Sam to latch on to the Cas-topic again, because Dean doesn't want to talk about it... that's what I think, anyway.
Samandriel: "I wanted to ask you about Castiel. What happened to him?"
Dean: "Well, me and Cas, we uh, we iced Dick Roman and got a one way rocket ride to Purgatory for our trouble."
Samandriel: "But you escaped, did...did Castiel?"
- The nice thing about angels is that you don't actually have to answer them with words, you can just emote really hard at them.
- I think after this conversation is the point where Naomi sent angels to rescue Castiel, once she got word that he didn't get out with Dean... unless she had already sent them before hand, and Samandriel is just confirming that the assault on Purgatory had to continue you.
- Of course, then we run into the problem of how the angels could battle their way to a rescue, when no one even know where Purgatory was or how to get into it in S6...but then, maybe at some point last year Cas actually managed to tell heaven? I don't know when that would have been though. Maybe he left a note while he was all hepped up on souls. "Note to self: To get more souls, go to these coordinates." :P
Samandriel: "You know, there are some in heaven that still believe that despite his mistakes, Castiel's heart was always in the right place."
Dean: "Are you one of them?"
Samandriel: "I think to much heart was always Castiel's problem."
- Firstly, it's kind of interesting to think of angels as a race of people who can be like "sure, you slaughtered thousands of us for looking at you funny, but you meant well!" :P
- Secondly, I love the way Dean basically asks whether Samandriel is still Castiel's friend or not - it's not about Castiel, it's about whether Dean should trust Samandriel now...if he's Castiel's friend or his enemy determines if he's Dean's friend or enemy...which we find out is much how Dean vetted people in Purgatory too. The minute he saw Benny helping Cas, I'd argue, it the minute he decided to actually follow through on his promise to help Benny.
- Thirdly, and most importantly, I love this description of Castiel - the angel with too much heart. We find out this season that Castiel has always been a wrench in the works, as though God created him a little wrong/different than the other angels. We already know that despite all attempts, Castiel can't seem to stay dead. Castiel has come to see the resurrections as punishment, but personally, I think God created Castiel to be a check on angelic power. Everytime Castiel goes against the other angels, they tend to be doing something morally questionable... and no matter how many times they reprogram him, it recurs. Anyway, I'll talk about this some more when we actually get to Naomi's line, I'm sure.
Cas and Dean reunion in Purgatory flashback!!
- I love how Cas says this without turning his head. We find out that Cas has been hearing Dean pray to him every night...so he's USED to hearing Dean's voice - but then we see him say Dean's name and then realize that Dean's voice is coming from the environment around him instead of a prayer, and he freaks!
- I guess I should do my standard disclaimer about how I use the word love to mean platonic non-sexual love and not romantic love, blah blah blah....
- Dean really does love Cas.
Dean: "Nice peach fuzz"
Cas: "Thank you"
- Seriously, what's not to love about Cas. I just love the sincerity of his thank you.
Dean: "I want you to meet somebody - this is Benny. Benny, this is Cas."
- Cas, you're no longer my only supernatural-creature friend. Don't be jealous!
- Okay, I do actually want to talk about the Destiel ship for a moment. Up until this season, I was very much against it - not only because of Castiel being a pretty asexual creature, but also because he was fundamentally a creature, a non-human, and Dean has a very specific view of non-humans that I just could not see him ever getting past, even doubling down on it in S7 when Cas betrayed him. This is where "until this season" comes in, because we do, for the first time, actually see Dean starting to move past that old stance and begin judging non-humans on a case by case basis, and treating the ones who deserve to be treated like people just the same as he'd treat people. So, yeah, S8 (and I suppose post-S8) destiel is the only destiel that I will ever entertain. (Note that I have always considered Dean to be bisexual.)
Cas: "How did you find me?"
Dean: "The bloody way."
- Jensen's acting is so good. I love how the smile kind of slips off his face when Cas asks him the question, like he already has an inkling that Cas left him on purpose...and then he kind of puts the smile back on and changes the topic - he wants the denial to last.
Dean: "You feeling okay?"
Cas: "You mean am I still *makes the crazy gesture*"
Dean: "Yeah, if you want to be on the nose about it, sure?"
Cas: "No, I'm perfectly sane, but then 94% of psychotics think they're sane, so I guess we have to ask ourselves, 'what IS sane?'"
Dean: "Yeah, good question."
- I love Cas.
- Okay, that being said, I kind of wish they'd given us an explanation as to why Cas was suddenly sane as soon as he hit Purgatory. Personally, I think it's because he wasn't actually insane in S7, he was using it to hide - and he was using it as a way to repent. Cas was looking for a penance,and he thought that if he spent the rest of his life in madness, that would be enough, even if he wasn't really mad - or he was only mad if he focused his thought on that piece of Sam that he has a direct link to, that he transferred over to himself. (I tried to write a fic about how that transfer thing worked, but it turns out that I really suck at Castiel POV, so I abandoned it.)
Benny: "Why'd you bail on Dean?"
- Dean doesn't want to know Benny! You're ruining his denial that his best friend would abandon him!
- I do love Benny questioning though, because it shows us that Benny has no reason to trust the angel - more than that, the angel might actually pose a threat to him. All it would take is one smiting and Benny's plans would be for naught.
Benny: "The way I hear it, you two hit monsterland and hotwings here took off. I figure he owes you some backstory."
Dean: "Look, we were surrounded, okay. Some freak jumped Cas, obviously you kicked its ass, right?"
- Seriously, Dean is basically begging Cas to just go along with the excuse.
Cas: "I ran away."
Dean: "You ran away."
Cas: "I had to."
Dean: "That's your excuse for leaving me with those gorilla-wolves."
Dean: "You bailed out and what, went camping? I prayed to you, Cas. Every night!"
Cas: "I know-"
Dean: "You know, and you didn't- What the hell's wrong with you?"
- You can't avoid the truth forever.
- Now, that being said, I love Dean, but there's something very similar to the way his reunion with Cas is going and the way his reunion with Sam went (/is going to go)... both Cas and Sam have let Dean down, and within a few minutes of the joyous reunion, Dean is yelling at them for it. Now, arguably, they both deserve to be yelled at for it - but you have to think it's slightly ironic that Dean, who has self-esteem and failure issues himself, makes his loved ones feel like they're always letting him down and that Dean is unforgiving about it.
- Now, THAT, being said, I love that we do see Dean swallow down his initial rage here and realize that there has to be more than meets the eye - that there has to be something wrong with Cas, for Cas not to have answered Dean's prayers.
Cas: "I'm an angel in a land of abominations. There have been things hunting me since the moment we arrived."
Dean: "Join the club!"
Cas: "These are not just monsters, Dean, they're leviathan! I have a price on my head and I've been trying to stay one step ahead of them to- to keep them away from you. That's why I ran."
- Again, I love the acting on these lines - the way Castiel glances at Benny before he admits that he was trying to keep Dean safe, because the admission shows his hand. It shows that Dean is the most important thing to Castiel, and as soon as you know what someone's most-important thing is, then you can use it against them. The admission makes Castiel vulnerable and worse, it makes him vulnerable THROUGH Dean. Like Kevin showing his hand that he cares about his mother - or the Winchesters caring most about each other and the bad guys knowing it to...
Dean: "We'll figure it out. Cas, buddy, I need you."
- Again, Misha just kills it in this episode. The way you can see Cas just crumble in the face of Dean using the magic words. Cas knows that he's lost this fight, even before he capitulates.
Dean: "And if leviathan want to take a shot at us, let 'em! We ganked those bitches before, we can do it again."
Cas: "It's too dangerous"
Dean: "Let me bottom line it for you. I'm not leaving here without you. Understand?"
Cas: "I understand."
- I love Dean - his line about the leviathan reminds me of his speech to Bobby in 5x01. Dean knows how to motivate those around him... and when that doesn't work, well, Cas showed his hand before - and Dean will use that. If Cas left Dean to save him, then he'll join Dean to save him too.
Crowley: "Samandriel. Slumming it, are we?"
- See, this is why I favour the "Samandriel is big, old and powerful" theory... because he's "slumming it" in a teenager.
Crowley: "Don't know why you're so keen on that hunk of dirt. So it tells you how to blast back a few demons. I'll just make more. Can't get rid of all of my black-eyed boys, Samantha"
Sam: "Yeah, we'll see."
- And here's where Crowley starts getting the inkling that there's much more on that tablet than Kevin led on.
I love how they actually think hacked credit cards, $2000, and a costco membership are enough to make a bid in the auction.
That being said, when the bidding starts - the look on their faces - yeah, that's how I feel during the auctions at the Creation Supernatural conventions. :P
Dean tries the ol' "just steal it" trick - it's a no go.
5/8ths of a virgin... that's actually a pretty small bag for 5/8ths in my opinion.
Heaven owns the Mona Lisa and Vatican City, Hell owns a topless Mona Lisa, Alaska, and the Moon. :P
Ah and the twist we should have all seen coming...Kevin is an auction item.
Linda: "My soul. I bid my soul."
Kevin: "Mom, no!"
Dean: "You sure? That's a big move."
- Dean would know.
Crowley: "If it's souls that you're after, I can give you a million souls."
Dean: "Hey flyboy, you going to get in on this?"
Samandriel: "We guard the souls in heaven, we don't horse trade them."
- Yeah, that would completely ruin the safe haven of heaven. It's really the ONLY place in the universe where human souls are safe. It's why it's desirable in this universe to get in there - even if Dean would rather live.
Plutus: "It's not about the quantity, chief. It's about the sacrifice."
- Ah, and we get to a theme of the season: Sacrifice as the ultimate payment. Absolutely nothing comes without a sacrifice, and to do the big things, you need big sacrifices.... whether those sacrifices are worth it is another matter. In the end, I don't think we get an answer to that question, at least not a definitive one. Dean, I think, decides that some sacrifices are too great.
Plutus: "[her soul] is the most valuable thing she has. It's everything. Are you willing to bid everything, Mr. Crowley."
- And this is a very interesting thought on value - that things don't have value in a vacuum. Linda Tran's "everything" is the same value as Crowley's "everything" even though Crowley has quantifiably MORE. We could get into a whole debate about taxes based on this line, but I guess that'd be slightly off topic.
Crowley: "Alright, I bid...my own soul!"
Plutus: "Hahahaha! Mr. Crowley, you don't have a soul."
- I do like how this was built up to be a joke on the drama of it all...
- But that being said, Crowley not "having" a soul, makes me wonder about the mythology of it all. We know that all demons were once human, and humans have souls - in fact, demons are human souls twisted into something grotesque... so, on the one hand, Crowley kind of DOES have a soul... but at the same time he doesn't, because Crowley doesn't exist WITHOUT his soul (like Sam can), because Crowley IS a soul.
Linda: "Losing my soul. Is it going to hurt?"
Linda: "Will I die?"
Sam: "No, you'll just wish you were dead."
- Oh Winchesters, so comforting.
Dean: "You alright?"
- No, Dean, she'd definitely not....stop asking stupid questions.
Sam: "This sucks."
Dean: "You kidding me, we're about to close the gates of Hell forever, if you ask me, we got off cheap."
- Dean's willing to sacrifice OTHER people to close the gates of hell, just not Sam.... It's interesting, because I was watching some other episodes with my sister a few weeks ago, and she said, "at some point, don't you think that they just become selfish?" And I couldn't disagree. There is nothing they wouldn't put in front of each other, sure, and that might sound like a noble love story - but maybe they SHOULD be putting things in front of each other. The Winchesters are willing to sacrifice everything EXCEPT each other. Arguably, unlike Linda Tran, they aren't willing to sacrifice their "everything", not for anything.
Samandriel: "...and I want you to know that my friends and I can protect your son. The Winchesters are acceptional men, but... they're just men. If Kevin comes with us, then-"
Linda: "The last time that angels tried to help my son, I watched them die. And Kevin went missing for a year, so no offence, but, I'm going to take my chances with them."
- I love that "just men" line. It's been repeated a few times over the course of this show - the only one I can remember at the moment is Bobby's mosnter girlfriend saying it to him when he wanted to try to protect her from Castiel and Crowley. But, yeah, I love that theme, about "just men" actually being your best bet.
- I also like that Linda turns down the angel request, not only to protect her son, but also to protect the ANGELS.
Tran!Crowley: "Hello boys!"
- The first time we see Crowley's eyes! And he is indeed a crossroads demon.
I love how Lauren Tom changes her voice to resemble Mark Sheppard's. She does such a good job of it - being similar, but not a caricature. So good.
Kevin: "Get out of her!"
Crowley: "If I had a nickel for every time someone screamed that at me-"
YES! SAM'S THOR MOMENT! Sooooooooooooooo awesome.
Mr. Villi: "Okay, give it back...give it back"
Sam: "Where'd you get the 5/8th of a virgin?"
Mr. Villi: "Oh no-"
- Hahaha, AWESOME (and hot.)
- Also, why the HELL didn't they keep Mjolnir!
- Also, I wonder if this Mjolnir has the same rules as in the comic book, where only those who...whatever, are good?... can possess the power of Thor. I seriously forget what the condition is. Ways to tell that I am not a comic-book fangirl. :P
Also, why the hell are Sam and Dean willing to rush Crowley when he's in Mrs. Tran, but they won't rush him when he's in his man-suit - because Dean could have easily charged him and knocked the tablet out of his hand.... but I suppose then there wouldn't be an excuse for more tablet themed episodes. :P
Crowley: "...Do you want to know who your real father is? Scandalous."
- Oh Crowley... you are evil. Also, nice way to open the door for possible "Kevin's father is someone interesting" storylines in the future.
Crowley: "One word of advice: Run. Run far and run fast. Because the Winchesters, they have a habit of using people up, and watching them die bloody. Toodles."
- Crowley does have a point. With the Winchesters, it's themselves and the mission first and everyone else second...and they DO have a habit of using people and then watching them die - not on purpose, it's just the way it goes.
- I do think that Kevin DID take this this piece of advice to heart, even when he rejoins the Winchesters later - and that's part of the reason he sends his mom away and he runs himself into the ground, because he knows he's at the part where he gets used up, so he uses himself up - even though the Winchesters actually do want him to take care of himself and NOT die horribly.
- On the other hand, if Kevin had just listened to Dean and NOT shown his hand by going to see his mother, his mother would still be relatively SAFE surrounded by demons.
Kevin: "You tried to kill her."
Dean: "Kid, in this life-"
Kevin: "Shut-up! I don't want to hear any more of your crappy speeches. I just want to talk to my mom - alone."
- Kevin's doing the reverse-Winchester - first the girlfriend THEN the mother. :P
- But yeah, if Dean was perhaps a little more empathetic to Kevin's losses, Kevin would PROBABLY be more willing to stick around and not believe what Crowley said about the Winchesters just using people.
Sam: "Dean, were you really going to...uh..."
Dean: "Slit soccer mom's throat? Yeah. Wish I had."
Dean: "It was Crowley, Sam. No matter what meatsuit he's in, I should have knifed him. Yeah, it would have sucked, and I would have hated myself, but what's one more nightmare, right?"
- And here we see that for all Dean's renewed love for hunting, it's still misery underneath. He's just figured out how to numb it now.
Sam: "What the hell was he thinking!?"
Dean: "He thinks people I don't need anymore end up dead."
Sam: "Dean, that's not true, you know that."
- And here we see Sam's empathy, because Sam immediately knows that that comment cuts Dean to the marrow - that Dean is still recovering from losing Cas.
And we get a quick flashback to Cas in Purgatory...and maybe here is where Dean fabricates the memory. He latches on to the criticism of his character and his self-esteem/failure issues decide that maybe Kevin's right. Maybe he didn't try hard enough with Cas, maybe he failed him.
Sam and Dean walking through the train station. Dean tugging on his collar.
Sam: "What's with you and the suits?"
Dean: "Nothing, I just don't understand why we need these things."
Sam: "Because they're useful."
Dean: "Doesn't mean I have to like it."
- This is funny, because I heard somewhere recently that Jared and Jensen actually hate wearing the suits on the show.
Linda Tran making a sassy comment as she leaves the pawnshop, and we see that the kid's license plate said "rockstar"... yeah, kind of unnecessary.
Alright! DONE! Hope you enjoyed... next episode we get to the MOTWs....