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Quick Reaction: 8x12 As Time Goes By

I was really fearing that I would hate this episode... but thankfully I didn't!

Woo! Let's talk about it....

Sometimes I wish I weren't spoiled at all for these episodes. It would have been nice to not know who Henry was until the reveal with the Winchesters, but between people spoiling me on the internet and the promo from last week, I already knew...ah well.

We got to see cute little John, and his dad watching him sleep (Maybe Dean should give him a speech about that.) I think John's bedside lamp might have been the same one that was in Sam's nursery. I could be wrong though. Henry leaves and promises he'll be back in the morning, and then turns on the music box which plays As Time Goes By... awww...

Of course, at that point we all know that he's never coming home. Now, before you guys all point out the canon discrepancies - Superwiki has you covered..They actually leave enough wiggle-room in that you can still explain things. John was fairly young when Henry left, and with those genetics, I'm sure his mother was a fox and was able to get remarried to a mechanic.

I was relieved, because with Henry going missing when John was young (and the secretness of the society he belonged to - The Knowledge? I forget what they called themselves) - it meant that John technically still was a civilian until Mary died (and even John's mother might not known about the Supernatural). And, I kind of liked the whole Brains+Brawn thing that it meant...but I'm getting way ahead of myself here.

Henry goes to the secret club and meets a classy dame. Never trust the classy dames, Henry! Have you learned nothing from Noir films? Classy dames turns out to be Ab...uh, Abron? Abubnon? Agammemnon? Superwiki will save me: ABADDON! Anyway., Abaddon kills every one, but before they die (or get blinded and almost die) they give Henry a box! SAVE THE BOX, HENRY!

Henry finds a room with spell ingredients and he USES ENOCHIAN! It's amazing! Man, I love knowledge... learn those spells Sam and Dean! Well, maybe not that one, because I don't want you to travel through time (and apparently Dean doesn't either), but in anycase, it's wicked cool.

And Henry successfully escapes to - WINCHESTER MOTEL ROOM! 

And yeah, falling out of a closet and asking for John Winchester is probably not something you want to do in front of Sam and Dean. (I feel like I should be making a gay joke here, and for that I apologize.)

Sam and Dean try to handcuff him to a chair until they figure out who the hell he is, but he's a magician! He handcuffs them instead!

What I want to know though is why do Sam and Dean just have handcuffs sitting out on the table? I mean... um... it's not like they use handcuffs a lot in their line of work, so.... yeah, my brain has just kind of written this scene where Dean's like "Hey Sammy, I'm putting the handcuffs on the table." And Sam's like "Uh, okay?" and Dean's like "I'm just saying... handcuffs are ON THE TABLE.".....*bow chicka wowwow*...

*cough* Anyway...

Henry runs outside and is overwhelmed by MODERN CARS! And he spots the Impala and checks out the license plate and it's 2013! "Guess the Mayans were wrong" - nice. Then Henry BREAKS THE DRIVER'S SIDE WINDOW OF THE IMPALA!  BAD HENRY! NO! Oh man, Show & Dean have trained me well, because I was suddenly like "NOW YOU MUST DIE, HENRY! NOW. YOU. DIE!"

Dean at least compliments his taste in wheels before he hauls him out of the car and back into the motel room.

And since Dean's livid, he gives up the game and yells that John Winchester is his dad, which gets Henry's attention... and then the boys yell that John's dead, and Henry reveals that John is his son... and yeah, as we faded to commercial break, I couldn't help but think Sam and Dean might be regretting not breaking the news a little more gently.

Of course, then me and my friend launched into wondering if the Winchesters were going to have to shoot another one of their grandfather's in the head.... they don't have the best track record with grandfathers.

Henry meanwhile, is none too impressed that Sam and Dean are Hunters - apparently the legacy of the Winchesters is to be a "man of letters" and KNOW things, while Hunters are "apes" - all violent and shoot first, ask questions later. Interesting. 

Anyway, Abaddon crashes the party and the demon blade doesn't kill her! She's still black-eyed, but the only other demons we know that resisted the blade were Alistair and Lilith - both, white-eyed, and one we KNOW was Lucifer's first demon, the other one I'm guessing must have been one too. So, does this mean that Lilith was a Knight? Or was she something else entirely? Was Alistair. Maybe not, since Henry seemed to think they were all dead except for Abaddon. 

When Henry mentioned Lucifer, I wanted Sam to be like "He was inside me, you know!" and then I played that sentence back in my head and I understood why Sam kept his mouth shut.

I've stopped going through the episode scene by scene now, because I can't actually remember the order of things anymore.

Let's talk about the comic books store place! First off, it's in Gastown. You may remember that street corner (where they had the Jewelers  from nearly every other show shot in Vancouver - but I always think of it as the bookshop in The Neverending Story.

I liked the goth girl. Also, SOMEONE in the art department has a connection to Mint Records, because every music poster in that place was a Vancouver band that's signed with Mint Records. Also, there were THREE different Nardwuar posters! 

Off to a graveyard!

I liked the whole "Have you boys ever exhumed a body?" and Sam and Dean just look at each other... it's like asking if they've ever experienced a Thursday. :P

Of course, this whole time we're learning about what the heck the secret society was all about. They only shared their knowledge with "elite" hunters. Um, Henry, not to speak out of turn, but I don't think you can get much more elite than Sam and Dean Winchester at this point. The only person who could have given them a run for their money is now dead.

Let's jump ahead to the family drama.

So, Dean's pissed off on behalf of John that Henry left him. As my friend said, "It seems abandonment issues run in the family." And Dean's pissed because Henry prioritized "hunting" or whatever the heck was in the box over being there for his son. So he storms off in a huff. Before all that happened though, we find out that John's journal was actually Henry's journal that he ordered right before he left. Awww... and that's what sets Dean off... because their dad's journal was, this whole time, their grandfather's journal.

Anyway, Henry reads his son's journal while Dean and Sam sleep on top of the covers like adorable puppies. Well, Dean sleeps like an angry adorable puppy with his arms crossed like he fell asleep saying "hurrumpf!", while Sam sleeps in a too tall for the bed pile of puppy. Seriously, their adorable.

What's even more adorable is Sam waking Dean up in the morning by hitting him. And they're only in one layer! Oh man... 

Henry's taken off "to make it right" - and so Dean and Sam split up. Sam goes to talk to the only survivor of the secret club, and Dean goes to get Henry.

Of course, this whole time Abaddon has been following them...and that's a pretty cool trick she does where she just possesses people a little bit in order to get their memories.

So, Dean tracks down Henry... now, part of me kind of thinks that maybe Dean SHOULD let Henry try to go back into the past - but at the same time, Dean's time travel has always worked on closed loops (and he's an old pro at this), so because it already has happened, it HAS to happen. And unlike when they were trying to stop the apocalypse, Dean actually doesn't want to be not-born. 

And he has a point. For some reason John moved from Normal, Illinois to Lawrence, Kansas... maybe because his mother had family there? Maybe his mom was the mechanic and there was a job there for her? Also, there's the fact that having his dad around would have made John a different father - actually, everything would have been different, because John would have already known about the Supernatural. It's a little bit too much to mess with. Dean's invested too much into this life to have it unmade I guess.

That being said, we'll never know, I guess....Henry could have solved everything AND lived if he went back. But, closed loops, always closed loops...so he didn't.

Meanwhile, Sam is finding out that Henry is holding the key to the "supernatural mother lode" of information. YES PLEASE! (Good god, I love information... I don't know if you've noticed from my obsessive collecting of it... but I do.) Sadly, the WIFE IS POSSESSED! Sam gets punched out and the old dude gets killed. No worries, he lived a full live of 127 years. And now they have to hostage trade....

So, Dean knocks out his poppa, and sticks him in the car... and wow, Dean fixed that window quickly. Always prioritize the Impala repairs, I guess.

And Dean explains that he understands, because he reads that journal all the time and every time he reads it, it hurts. Geeeeeeeez, Dean. It's been 10 years (8 of which you've spent reading that journal - firstly, you're a masochist, and secondly, don't you have it memorized by now?) And then Dean goes on to explain that he feels bad about not being able to do anything to save his Dad, so now he makes sure that no matter what, he ALWAYS does EVERYTHING HE CAN to save Sam, because he doesn't want to regret Sam's death too. Oh Dean. I'm willing to bet that you still regret Sam's death every damn time he dies on you.

This leads me to think about John though, and how his own father's perceived abandonment might have affected his fathering style. Like, there's the fact that John dragged Dean and Sam across the country and raised them like warriors.... who wants to bet that part of that (besides, you know, all the love) was because John didn't want to abandon his kids like his father had abandoned him?

They get to the warehouse and the exchange happens... and of course the demon doesn't keep her end of the deal. She plunges a hand into Henry's stomach (oh, that's a nasty way to die), but Henry gets a bullet lodged in her head. Now, unless that was a .22, which I think it was far too big to be, I'm pretty sure that bullet would just be a through shot...but whatever. Apparently Henry carved a devils trap in the tip and so it locks the demon in place! Crazyness. Especially crazy because I'm pretty sure the original colt bullets had the devil's trap carved in them too... unless that was a cross. I can't remember now.

So, the demon is as dead as that demon is going to get, seeing as how they don't have the colt anymore... and they're going to chop her up and put her under concrete. Lovely. I wonder what happens when the flesh rots to nothing? Salt-laced concrete?

Poor Henry is dying though. He dies in Sam's arms...awww... and his final words were that he never got to meet John as a man, but he can tell by his sons that he would have been proud of him.

I couldn't help but think of my friend metallidean_grl here, who is a big John Winchester fan, and how much she was going to like all the positive John comments in this episode. And with apologies to her....

I couldn't help but make the joke, "Don't tell him about how emotionally messed up you both are thanks to your father's questionable parenting... or about how Bobby had to pick up a lot of the slack...."  My friend added an additional Henry line "but having met you two, I can tell I would have been proud of him... he only managed to screw up his first-born." :P

Seriously, the "was John a good father?" debate is a really good one, and I'm not coming down on either side of it really - I just like making jokes. I'm really happy that metallidean_grl got a John positive episode, because I know she's been hurting the past few years when they've tended to criticize him on the show rather than praise him.

Anyway, I know I'm missing a whole lot from this episode - some of which might be important, and for that I apologize. Um, let's try to cover some random points:

1)Goth girl! Why did she have to die?!?! I liked her.

2)Ethnicity! Badass Indian-lady hunter shop-keeper!! Yes, Henry knocked her out with a dirty trick, but... SHE WAS AWESOME. I want to know more about her, and see her kicking ass... and can we have "the Adventures of BAMF Indian-Woman Hunter/Shop-Keeper" now?
 
3)DEAN AND SAM HAVE ANGEL FEATHERS IN THE TRUNK! I repeat: ANGEL FEATHERS IN THE TRUNK. Hmmm... I wonder where they get these angel feathers... CUE CASTIEL WING-GROOMING FICS! Personally, I just picture him showing up from time to time and handing them a bag full of feathers, because it's the Cas equivalent of handing them the tangle of hair from his hairbrush... and all their angel feathers are black...(because I like black-winged Castiel, even though I know theirs an argument that the wings aren't actually black, we're just seeing the shadow - but I don't care. The wings can be black AND we can only be seeing the shadow of them.)

4)Like I said, I was prepared to hate this episode, because I didn't want John's family to be hunters... but I'm glad that they sort of skirted that by making them scholars rather than hunters and then breaking the line before it got to John. Also, I like the whole Brains+Brawn thing as being part of the reason that it was important for John and Mary to get together. Furthermore, I think it's in keeping with John's bloodline being Michael's vessel-line... and Mary's being Lucifers... because, you know, the badass Hunters being Lucifer's vessel-line works, because Hunters are constantly falling onto both sides of the good/evil spectrum in kind of this crazy gray mess. Whereas Michael's line, being scholars, gets to act all self-righteous about being good, because they're not in the trenches. Feel free to disagree with me though.

ETA: 5) Dean actually acknowledging that Sam and he stopped the apocalypse and being proud of it was pretty awesome too! I think that's the first time he's actually done that.

Anyway... surprisingly good episode, given that I was prepared to hate it! It was also Serge's directorial debute - and I wish I knew more about that aspect of things, because I don't feel like I can really comment on it. It looked good to me! I'm more of a writing-critic, not a director-critic...so, yeah... episode looked good. Brad Creasser was the Director of Photography while Serge directed, and from what I could tell he did a good job too!

As always, let me know if I missed anything that you desperately want to discuss... or well, just let me know if there's anything that you desperately want to discuss!! 

Comments

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missyjack
Jan. 31st, 2013 09:01 am (UTC)
LOl - I note with amusement that over time your ep recaps are getting slashier and slashier!

I adored it and will write more soon but am having too much fun on the Wiki! Dude, john's Journal was the inspiration for the Wiki, so loved all this. Plus I feel they've just opened a portal to a whole new lot of mythology.

Jim Michaels said that one of the challenges of doing a comic shop was getting releases for the images of any well, comics, to appear on screen. Hence all the local stuff I suppose. Mind you WB owns DC comics so you think they could get a loan of some!
hells_half_acre
Jan. 31st, 2013 09:22 am (UTC)
Interesting about the comic shop decorations! Mostly, they were band advertisements - which, to me didn't actually seem out of place in a comic shop, since bands tend to advertise wherever people gather. And people like Nardwuar have kind of a...alternative/underground/cult following, so comic book stores would attract the right kind of folk. ;)

I'm super glad that I liked this episode. I was so worried when I saw the promo - but it all worked out! Yay! Good job, Adam Glass!

I'm going to wait until the weekend to timeline this one, but I'm looking forward to it. Have fun updating the Wiki! And thanks for being swift enough that I could link to your plot discrepancies bit and find out the name of the demon. I have to agree with Robbie Thompson, the Wiki is indispensable! (Exclamation point!)

LOl - I note with amusement that over time your ep recaps are getting slashier and slashier!

I CAN'T HELP IT! They had HANDCUFFS on the TABLE and ANGEL FEATHERS in the TRUNK! It practically writes itself! And Henry Winchester fell out of a closet! lol :P

(Hehehe, although I don't tend to write slash myself, I actually think it's a lot of fun... when I wrote my first Harry Potter/Supernatural novel fic, for the first couple chapters, my test for whether it was good or not was whether or not I could add the line "...and then they had sex" in my head at the end. ;) )
(no subject) - missyjack - Jan. 31st, 2013 09:25 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - hells_half_acre - Jan. 31st, 2013 09:30 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - liliaeth - Jan. 31st, 2013 10:08 am (UTC) - Expand
ashkiryn
Jan. 31st, 2013 09:24 am (UTC)
I think I'm going to start with some questions:

1. How, why, and since when are there "angel feathers" in the trunk of the Impala?
2. How did Henry know that he could find said angel feathers in the Impala's trunk?!
3. I may have to rewatch some episodes (like "Abandon All Hope"), because I may be missing something, but where the fuck is the Colt? And if they still have it...why the fuck not use it to at least try to kill her? And hell, if it could kill Azazel, I'm sure it could kill Abbadon.
4. Where is John's mother?! Why the hell wasn't she around???
5. How did the Impala's window get fixed so quickly?


Other things of note:

- I actually screamed out, "NO, NOT THE IMPALA!!!" when Henry smashed that window. This is what Supernatural makes me do. :P

- I kept wanting Dean and Sam to call Cas, because HELLO, ANGEL, MADE TO KILL DEMONS, or at least call him to borrow his sword, or SOMETHING, but then I have to keep reminding myself that they know someone's compromising Cas, and so therefore they couldn't afford to have him as backup, so, okay. BUT I STILL THINK YOU GUYS SHOULD AT LEAST MAKE A MENTION OF CAS AND WHY YOU'RE NOT CONTACTING HIM, OR SOMETHING!!!!

- Oh man, I was afraid that we were going to find out that the Winchesters, like the Campbells, were in some ~secret society~, and boy was I right----and hell, it was even worse than I'd feared. Mostly I don't know what to think about it---except that I feel so damn sorry for John, who was basically left so far out of every loop that it's not even funny. And I'm glad that at least they're not exactly Hunters.

- Although, I have to admit that I kind of like the idea, if Henry had been able to Properly Induct his son, of scholar!John and hunter!Mary. It's kind of a gender role reversal, and I really would have dug that.

- Oh, and speaking of, hello my John-feels, it's been a while since I've seen you. So let's see: he believes that his dad abandoned him when he was a kid, and he's apparently left alone, he goes to serve in the Vietnam War, ends up in Lawrence, falls in love with Mary, watches her burn to death, gets into Hunting the Supernatural, probably feeling that he's an inadequate father to his sons, but unable to leave them like his dad had left him. I think I'm starting to get why he freaked when Sam left for Stanford. Methinks that Dean is not the only Winchester with abandonment issues. :(

- Dean's really gotten into the habit of beheading things, btw

- Also, we now have what's basically a Magic Supernatural Skeleton Key?? Hoo boy, and with Naomi compromising Cas, and Crowley....argh, the very idea is so stressing me out.

- I kind of hope that all that knowledge from the Men of Letters or whatever (and was it jus Men of Letters? How sexist) isn't lost forever, because lost knowledge always sucks. And I can't believe it's lost, because why else bring it up, if it isn't going to be important to the plot later?

- I seriously need to know the identity of John's mother--come on, at least give me her name! Is that too much to ask?

I'm mostly going to be reserving judgment on this episode, at least until I can see how it plays out in the season(s?) as a whole, but I think there are some interesting ideas at work here. And I certainly don't hate it, like so many already seem to. *sigh* I mean...I just dislike that people seem to be deliberately focusing on the negative, you know?

Also, I'm really starting to get ridiculously into the idea of scholar!John/hunter!Mary. It's really kind of hot---and it'd have, like, overcoming prejudices (seeing Henry's opinion of hunters being "apes"), and whole complements thing going on. Oh man. Great, and now I'm interested in John/Mary like I've never been before. Holy crap, I think I need an AU of this now. *headdesk*

My only and biggest complaint, as of now: CAN WE AT LEAST MAKE A MENTION OF CAS'S CONTINUED EXISTENCE AND HAVE AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF HIS ON-GOING CRISIS? IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK? :/
hells_half_acre
Jan. 31st, 2013 09:41 am (UTC)
1. How, why, and since when are there "angel feathers" in the trunk of the Impala?

Apparently they've always been there! Or they've probably been there since S5 anyway. I know the writers kind of treat the Impala's trunk like Mary Poppins' bag - and strangely I'm okay with this.

2. How did Henry know that he could find said angel feathers in the Impala's trunk?!

He probably broke into the trunk to see how many of the ingredients they had, and then stole whatever he found that he needed. He probably didn't go in precisely for the angel feathers, but lucked out.

3. I may have to rewatch some episodes (like "Abandon All Hope"), because I may be missing something, but where the fuck is the Colt? And if they still have it...why the fuck not use it to at least try to kill her? And hell, if it could kill Azazel, I'm sure it could kill Abbadon.

Check the SuperWiki first. I think they lost it in Abandon All Hope, and then got it, but left it behind in Frontierland...so, they haven't had it for a while, and don't know where it is.

4. Where is John's mother?! Why the hell wasn't she around???

She was around. We just didn't see her. But yes, I agree it would have been nice to have a mention of her.

5. How did the Impala's window get fixed so quickly?

Haha, MAGIC! :P

BUT I STILL THINK YOU GUYS SHOULD AT LEAST MAKE A MENTION OF CAS AND WHY YOU'RE NOT CONTACTING HIM, OR SOMETHING!!!!

AGREED!! I think that was the only part of the episode that really annoyed me.

Although, I have to admit that I kind of like the idea, if Henry had been able to Properly Induct his son, of scholar!John and hunter!Mary. It's kind of a gender role reversal, and I really would have dug that.

Yeah, this is the thing, I was all prepared to hate them for this episode that destroyed my Winchester Family headcanon...but I kind of like the idea of Scholar!Winchesters and Hunter!Campbells... it's, as you say, a cool gender role reversal and kind of hot.

I think I'm starting to get why he freaked when Sam left for Stanford. Methinks that Dean is not the only Winchester with abandonment issues. :(

Indeed. It made John more sympathetic than they usually make him - and a bit more understandable. It explains why he clings so tightly to family. Oh John.

And I can't believe it's lost, because why else bring it up, if it isn't going to be important to the plot later?

Yeah, it's gotta still be around and come into play later. I have a feeling we'll probably get to see it just to have it destroyed in front of us or something - because Supernatural likes to do that - but it's gotta be important.

And yeah, "Men of letters" really? I mean, I know it was the 50s, but come on! Name your secret society something cooler and less sexist!

I just dislike that people seem to be deliberately focusing on the negative, you know?

This is why I don't read anyone episode reactions/reviews but my own, and a very limited handpicked few. And thankfully people who comment here tend to not to be negative-nellies. :)
(no subject) - ashkiryn - Jan. 31st, 2013 09:57 am (UTC) - Expand
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liliaeth
Jan. 31st, 2013 10:07 am (UTC)
I really liked the ep, except for one thing. The ending.

My main issue is simple, they've got an angel for a best friend, an angel who can heal with a touch, who might be slightly compromised, but still, better than nothing.
So why the hell wasn't Dean calling for Cas to come save Henry?

They still could have had him die, by saying that Cas either didn't hear dean, or have Naomi stop him from coming. (which they wouldn't even have to show, but could mention in a later ep) Yet instead they don't even mention that they have a friend who could have saved their grandfather's life.
hells_half_acre
Jan. 31st, 2013 10:11 am (UTC)
Yeah, that was my problem with it too - in my opinion, they should have mentioned Cas when a)they were trying to figure out how to kill the demon, and b)Henry was dying.

That's the problem with having a powerful character on the show though, you have to come up with reasons why he can't be your deus ex machina. That being said, the way around that writing dilemma is to ignore it's existence completely. :P So yes, that couldn't have been handled better, as you say, it's not like they don't have excuses for why he couldn't help.

But, overall it was a good episode, and much better than I was fearing originally, so I'm happy! :)
borgmama1of5
Jan. 31st, 2013 10:13 am (UTC)
I expected to not be happy with a retcon of Henry Winchester knowing all about the supernatural and John being ignorant, but it was written plausibly...and it does open the mythology to keep the show going another year or two (or ten!) The way the secret society and the name 'Men of Letters' seemed a little hokey, but I'll wait and see how that aspect gets explored further before judging it...

I wonder if anyone else was reminded of the time god by the way Henry looked/acted?
hells_half_acre
Jan. 31st, 2013 10:17 am (UTC)
I wonder if anyone else was reminded of the time god by the way Henry looked/acted?

Oh man! I was!

And a big "same here" for the rest of your comment. I'm interested to see where this storyline goes! I'm crossing my fingers for awesomeness. ;)
(no subject) - liliaeth - Jan. 31st, 2013 10:18 am (UTC) - Expand
claudiapriscus
Jan. 31st, 2013 11:32 am (UTC)
About the apocalypse thing- Man, that year in purgatory really did wonders for Dean. It was like a retreat. Therapy for Dean apparently spending a lot of time with his best buddies and killing lots and lots of monsters. Huh.

"but he can tell by his sons that he would have been proud of him."

I haven't seen the episode yet, but I am cracking up at the idea of a not-dying grandfather saying that and Sam looking all awkward and being like, "um." Hell, I'm cracking up even without that, thinking about Bobby. Yes, new grandfather dude, Bobby *was* awesome. And you probably would have liked him a lot more than John.

One other random thought- the difference between the show and fic: if this had been fic, Castiel definitely would have been involved, and wouldn't that have been a cool thing to add in the mix.
hells_half_acre
Jan. 31st, 2013 09:15 pm (UTC)
Purgatory really did do wonders for Dean - I mean, yes, it gave him a brief case of PTSD, but once he moved past that, he seems way better and more emotionally stable than usual!

And yes, the amount of lines that ran through my head at the grandfather's line about being proud of John were hilarious... :P

Cas not being called was definitely the blackest mark on this episode for me. I mean, I understand that they didn't want to use him as a fix-it, but at least come up with a reason WHY he can't be used as a fix-it. I think fic writers know how to cover their bases better than show writers do sometimes.
(no subject) - claudiapriscus - Jan. 31st, 2013 10:21 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - hells_half_acre - Jan. 31st, 2013 10:25 pm (UTC) - Expand
raloria
Jan. 31st, 2013 12:10 pm (UTC)
I liked the whole "Have you boys ever exhumed a body?" and Sam and Dean just look at each other... it's like asking if they've ever experienced a Thursday. :P

Ha! I loved that too, and Dean's bitching about doing all the work. Dude, like you and Sam don't do this stuff all the time!

I can't get over that darned window being broken and fixed so quickly. Though I suppose Dean could've had it fixed when he left the motel room in a huff? Though wasn't that at night? They were going to go to bed. How would he find a place to replace a window...and on an old car in the middle of the night? Gah!!!!! Once a Script Supervisor, always a Script Supervisor. This one is going to eat away at my brain. I know it.

As usual, I loved reading your thoughts. So much to mull over from this ep. They just opened up a whole lot of new avenues for the show. Next week should be really interesting based on that Robert Singer interview I just read. ;)
hells_half_acre
Jan. 31st, 2013 09:18 pm (UTC)
Haha, yeah, continuity!! Obviously, they needed you there. ;)

Maybe Dean broke into a mechanics in the middle of the night and angrily fixed his window. He's probably done it so many times now that it doesn't take him very long. :P

I really like this new avenue for the show. It seems like they're doing a good job setting up a lot of things at stake again - yay! Hopefully some of these can carry into next season as well. I haven't read any interviews because I don't want to be spoiled, but I'm glad that you're intrigued by whatever is being said! That's a good sign.
(no subject) - claudiapriscus - Jan. 31st, 2013 10:22 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - hells_half_acre - Jan. 31st, 2013 10:23 pm (UTC) - Expand
ext_1626022
Jan. 31st, 2013 01:59 pm (UTC)
the warehouse
Is it just me or does the warehouse where the final showdown is look a lot like the warehouse Meg Masters went through the window of in 'Shadow' (S01E16)
hells_half_acre
Jan. 31st, 2013 09:05 pm (UTC)
Re: the warehouse
I'll have to watch the episode again - but it could be the same one. I know they've used the glass factory more than once, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were re-using other large warehouse-type buildings.
katsheswims
Jan. 31st, 2013 02:21 pm (UTC)
I was worried I wouldn't like the episode as well, but I was very surprised and I did like it!

"so now he makes sure that no matter what, he ALWAYS does EVERYTHING HE CAN to save Sam, because he doesn't want to regret Sam's death too. Oh Dean. I'm willing to bet that you still regret Sam's death every damn time he dies on you."--Yes, I had the same thought here. Sad.

I loved your little handcuff scene--very funny.

This episode did make you feel sorry for John (sympathize with him), but I still dislike him and fall under the 'not a good father' side. Though I admit he had some good points and loved Sam and Dean.
hells_half_acre
Jan. 31st, 2013 09:20 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I'm not sure where I fall on the John debate. He had some good points, and I think he was kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place - but he also royally screwed up some things and messed up his kids in kind of extreme ways. :P

I'm glad you liked my handcuff scene! ;)
sylvia_locust
Jan. 31st, 2013 03:27 pm (UTC)
Your reviews are always so fun to read, and your slashy musings cracked me up.

Sometimes I wish I weren't spoiled at all for these episodes. It would have been nice to not know who Henry was until the reveal

I didn't watch the promo or see any spoilers, but the John-heavy 'previously on' gave it all away anyway! As soon as I saw the year and the little brown haired boy in bed, I knew it was John.

Also, I was watching this ep with my cousin and I didn't think she'd ever stop laughing at me when I was all "Hey! Sam hasn't worn that shirt since season 5!"
hells_half_acre
Jan. 31st, 2013 09:22 pm (UTC)
Thanks! I'm glad you liked my slashy musings ;)

True, the "then" always gives it away. I know some people with digital boxes that actually skip over it and start watching only from the NOW for that reason.

Also, I was watching this ep with my cousin and I didn't think she'd ever stop laughing at me when I was all "Hey! Sam hasn't worn that shirt since season 5!"

YOU'RE ME! Hahahah, that's what I was doing in my head for the whole episode (and often do every episode.) Occasionally I do it outloud, but then my friends tend to look at me like I'm completely insane. :P
bard2003
Jan. 31st, 2013 05:18 pm (UTC)
ok... lets see...
1)why no one mentions henrys "you have hunters sign on your window"? and do sam and dean know about those signs???
2) i love your 4 point about brains/browns and michael/lucifer. and yep. it works great with cupids words.
3) i agree that somehow cas not being called looks strange. may be they called but he didnt answered?
4) is it me or henrys reaction to deans mention of apocalipsis was like he didnt think its important?
5) lilith and alistar were first demon and fallen angel - white eyes. azazel was fallen angel, king of hell etc - yellow eyes, but abbadon is a demon (old, knight etc, but one that started as demon) can it be a reason for black eyes?
liliaeth
Jan. 31st, 2013 07:39 pm (UTC)
I'm guessing that considering his low opinion of Hunters, that he probably didn't take the mention of the apocalypse as serious as he should have. He probably figured they were just talking about some minor demons causing trouble (well that or he thought they were talking about the Mayan apocalypse*eg*)
(no subject) - hells_half_acre - Jan. 31st, 2013 09:29 pm (UTC) - Expand
saltandlimes
Feb. 1st, 2013 12:34 am (UTC)
I totally agree with everyone who has been wondering about Cas. No matter how odd things were the last time they saw him, why aren't they trying to get his help now.

oh and! why in the world haven't they been trying to figure out whats going on with Cas. I mean, if my best friend disappeared after killing someone, I'd be a little worried and what to know what was going on with him.

APOCALYPSE. WHAT? I honestly think Henry just didn't realized Dean meant the literal apocalypse. I can't imagine that he would take it so lightly or that he wouldn't want to know a little more about what had happened. In fact, he's entirely too uncurious throughout the episode. Maybe its just tied to his notion that hunters have absolutely no higher thinking skills.

Last but not least, did anyone else notice how little Sam said in this episode? He just had little nonverbal conversations with Dean. He didn't even angst. grr...
hells_half_acre
Feb. 1st, 2013 01:19 am (UTC)
I kind of think that Henry being uncurious and Sam not talking are linked - I kind of got the feeling that Henry was steamrolling the boys throughout the whole episode (much like John used to do) - as you say, because he judged them immediately to be "apes" and assumed that they didn't have any knowledge, when in fact they ARE the elitest of the elite in the Hunting world, and with the destruction of the Men of Letters, they're the next best thing... but Henry never took the time to realize that, because he was too busy assuming that he was the smartest in the room.

I'm with you on Cas - if something shady was going on with my best friend, I'd be focusing on that. But hey, maybe they were before Henry crashed through their closet. It just would have been nice to get a line about it.
(no subject) - saltandlimes - Feb. 1st, 2013 03:37 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - hells_half_acre - Feb. 1st, 2013 03:44 am (UTC) - Expand
4422shini
Feb. 1st, 2013 02:51 am (UTC)
I too was prepared to hate this episode, mainly because I don't like the idea of EVERYONE being connected/involved in the supernatural. Some ancestors can just be regular people!

But I was surprised, because they did a really good job of connecting everyone but not making it really neat and tidy. I like that John never knew any of this father's history.

I'd love to see some alternate universe fics where John, Sam and Dean are raised in the order.... How would that effect the apocalypse? I feel like it would have happened regardless (too many big forces about), but the manner it occurred would change? Hmmm...
hells_half_acre
Feb. 1st, 2013 03:00 am (UTC)
Yes, exactly - I thought they were doing the equivalent of "every single person in this fic is gay", but they still managed to make me like it, and keep John as being raised a civilian. So, I'm happy.

I think the apocalypse still would have happened, because they had both Heaven and Hell gearing towards it at the same time. But yeah, the circumstances and the personality of the characters would be different - who knows, maybe they wouldn't have had the ability to stop it if they had been brought up differently!
(no subject) - 4422shini - Feb. 1st, 2013 06:21 pm (UTC) - Expand
metallidean_grl
Feb. 1st, 2013 05:37 am (UTC)
Loved this episode and your review, as always, always entertains. I love your thoughts, and thanks for the shout out. I have had SO MANY warm fuzzy John feels from this episode, I can't help but cry. I was so happy to finally get some positive from Show in regards to John. I just watched this episode for a third time, and the more I watch it, the more I love it. There is so much in this episode and I am excited about the new mythology and possible direction for the show.

As to your comments about Dean reading John's journal all the time. Yes, I am sure that Dean has the thing memorized and knows exactly where John talks about Vetalas, demons, or whatever. But the thing is, it's not about having memorized it, it's the fact that actually reading the journal, looking at his father's handwriting and reading his father's thoughts and comments probably helps him to feel closer to his dad. I'm sure Dean misses his father terribly and this one small thing, reading his journal, is just a way for him to feel like he is near his father once again, that his father is with him. So, I'm sure he could quote the book, if need be, but reading it is something else completely.

Several have commented wondering why Dean and Sam didn't just call Cas and have him come in and heal Henry. Well, remember back in Season 6 when Death taught Dean the important lesson of the Natural Order and how important it is not to mess with it. Well, Dean learned his lesson that time and from then on has not messed with the Natural Order, and had Dean and Sam called in Cas to heal Henry to have him continue to exist in their time, or try to go back in time, it would mess with the Natural Order, so thus, they allowed Henry to die, as it is the Natural Order.
hells_half_acre
Feb. 1st, 2013 05:57 am (UTC)
Yay! :) I was thinking of you the whole episode, I swear. I knew you were going to be so pleased with it! I haven't rewatched the episode yet, but I plan to this weekend when I timeline it - and I am looking forward to it!

Very good point about the journal. I always miss the more sentimental reasons that people do things, I guess. But you're right. It's probably not so much read for the information anymore, but read for the comfort of remembering their father.

Also, a very good point about the natural order and the lesson Dean learnt from Death in S6. Not to mention, now that you've got me thinking of it, the fact that Dean didn't want Henry to go back even when he was alive, because it might mean that he and Sam were never born - or change things too much and cause the apocalypse to happen (Dean really doesn't want that work undone.) So, yes, I completely understand why he didn't call Cas at that point.

I guess I just wish they'd at least mention Cas, because *I'm* worried about him...and I think they should be too. I'd seriously just be happy with a "any luck researching what might be going on with Cas?" "Nope, I got nothing." :P
(no subject) - metallidean_grl - Feb. 1st, 2013 06:21 am (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
hells_half_acre
Feb. 2nd, 2013 03:29 am (UTC)
Ooo, I like the headcanon that the demon-eyes are based on personality/style and not power levels!

I always picture Merlin when I think of medieval stuff now (which is hilarious, because Merlin is quite anachronistic.) :P Though, since I've been rewatching Sherlock, I've started to also just think immediately of chessboards when anyone mentions a king, queen, and knights... :P

Dean is a very precious angry puppy. :)
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - hells_half_acre - Feb. 2nd, 2013 03:43 am (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
hells_half_acre
Feb. 2nd, 2013 04:04 am (UTC)
Threeway crossovers are way too difficult to do well - especially when dealing with vastly different universes. So, I always encourage those plotbunnies to run off into a meadow somewhere never to be seen again.

I mean, the most you could do is a fusion+crossover or just a straight fusion - but even that, I think if I came across it, I'd raise an extremely skeptical eyebrow. :P
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