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Quick Reaction: 7x19 Of Grave Importance

Oh man...so, I was going to watch this episode on the east coast feed, but then it was a a sunny day and my sister wanted to go to the bookstore, eat ice cream on Granville Island, and then drink sangria and play ukulele on the roof...and really, who was I to say no to all that?

But, I still saw the episode before it aired in the west, thanks to my friend's PVR (I am cat/house-sitting this week.)



Right now, I can tell you my quick reaction is to feel MUCH the same as Sam and Dean are feeling at the end of the episode, so obviously the writers did a fantastic job on having a story from Bobby's POV, but leaving me with Sam'n'Dean feels.

But, let's begin at the beginning...

FOOD on the COTW (that's Car Of The Week). I love scenes like this - "domestic scenes", because this is the equivalent of a Winchester family dinner. 

And a phonecall from Annie. I want to go through my old caps and look at Dean's cell contacts lists again - because he always has so many names in there that we never see, and I want to know if Annie was one of them and for how long...it's nice to see another hunter. It's why I liked Garth. I kind of always want them to explore Hunter society a bit more...I've always been curious about how Hunters react to Sam and Dean...obviously, according to Annie, they don't treat them any differently than other Hunters. Which, I guess is a good thing...

I liked how Dean took that phone call, and when Annie brought up Bobby, he gave this glance to Sam and then tried not to mention Bobby's name out loud...it was totally a "I don't want to talk about my feelings in front of my brother" moment. Oh Dean. :P

Let's see...then the stupid kids get killed...and Annie investigates...

And then we get another Winchester scene! Yay! They are being stood up. Haha. Oh I'm jumping ahead.

So, um...Annie slept with Bobby, Dean, AND Sam?! Awesome. I would like to be Annie please. How does Sam know that she slept with Bobby? Was that their pillow talk when her and Soulless!Sam got it on? I love how this whole conversation. I also love how Sam says, "she was stressed and I...had no soul." Hahaha, oh Sam, I love you so much.

(Also, is it just me, or do you picture Dean sleeping with Annie when he was a teenager? I totally see her as the older sexy woman seducing a teenage Dean. She'd be any 18 year-old's wet-dream.  It's either that, or it would have had to have been while Sam was at Stanford, since otherwise Dean and Sam know all of each other's conquests - except, obviously, Sam's soulless year.)

Oh yeah, the creepy house is totally the same one as Playthings in S2. I'm sure everyone caught that. :) 

Anyway...it's interesting to see how impotent Bobby is as a ghost...because remember that episode in S4 when Sam and Dean ghostified themselves and learned how to move things telekinetically in one afternoon?  Mind you, they had a teacher. Bobby can't be there all the time though - and I mainly say that because at the end he acts as though he doesn't know that the boys slept with Annie too (have I mentioned that it must have been nice to be Annie? Mind you, this means the curse of sleeping with Sam still holds true)....even though Dean had the flask at the restaurant when he and Sam discussed it. Also...I mean, he's got to be able to choose when he appears, because I'm sure there's things about the boys that he does not want to see...

So, where was I? Oh yeah...the boys go to the house to investimagate. And...Annie's dead. Aw shucks. I was kind of hoping she was alive somehow. But no...it seems rather unfair that such an obviously badass hunter could be taken out by a ghost, even a super-charged ghost...but I guess that's part of the hunting life, anything really can be your death.

I did fall for the misdirect with the convict vs. the dapper dude. Also, that ghost that ran at Bobby scared me. 

I wish we had seen Dean in the shower *is shallow* but at least we got to see wet Dean in a single layer afterwards...oh yeah....*pauses show* *appreciates* *contemplates general sense of sexual frustration* *unpauses show*

But YAY Bobby for writing on the mirror!

Oh, jumping back for a minute...it kind of annoys me that Annie said "do me a solid..." to a dude who died 80 years ago...um, maybe use phrases that were around 80 years ago? Thanks.

Anyway, YAY Bobby for writing on the mirror! I loved Dean and Sam's reactions...Jared and Jensen are so good with their reactions this episode, because they are so CONFLICTED! They are happy to see Bobby, but they are horrified that he's a ghost - it goes against everything that BOBBY raised them to believe is right. So, how can they justify not putting Bobby to rest, especially since they know what's tying him to the world...and there's the fact that they love him, and want him around, but at what eventual cost? I'm getting ahead of myself....

Actually, I'm jumping all over the place here - let me launch into some timeline stuff:
Fact #1: Bobby passes out when he manages to do something.
Fact #2: It took Bobby a month to realize he was dead and still around...does this mean that he missed the month that Dean and Sam spent SOLELY grieving? Did he realize he was dead and then immediately disappear Dean's beer?
Fact #3: Bobby passed out for 2 weeks after he knocked a book off the table. That means that he didn't see what happened once Dean found Cas. Also, how did Bobby know about Cas? DID he know about Cas? Did he know about the Hunter who was healed by "Emmanuel" and just not know it was Cas? If so, that means that 7x10 and 7x17 happened within 3 months of each other and possibly an even shorter time period. 
Possibilities: If Bobby passed out for an indeterminate time whenever he successfully did something that means that he may have not been around after 1)The beer, 2)The helpful page, 3)Sam went crazy, 4)the sword. 
Fact #4: If Bobby passed out for 2 weeks after knocking that book off the table, that means that 7x18 occurred 2 weeks after 7x17 because Bobby moved the sword in 7x18. 

Cool....time-lining! Isn't it fun?!?! Seriously, I love this crap. It's like logical puzzles, only less annoying.

So, back to the house! Annie and Victoria chat it up...and um...if Victoria sent Annie a message? How did that work? Was Annie at the house and Victoria saw her and left a message on her phone? Was Annie someplace else and Victoria sent a message to her and she somehow tracked it down to that area even though there was no possible way to do that? 

Anywho...we simultaneously find out what this week's misdirect was - two more teenagers get offed - and we learn that ghosts can off other ghosts...which means sense, I mean, Mary did it back in 1x09...only it destroyed her rather than make her stronger. I know they've been doing it on another show that I won't mention for fear of spoiling it for someone who hasn't seen it (I don't watch the show, but my friend does, and she tells me things). Anyway...interesting clarification/addition to the mythology. Also, it was freaky and cool to see the deterioration of ghosts.

So, yeah...Bobby and Dean come and are able to speak with Victoria...and that was neat. And then it's off to burn the bad guy! Yay! Only the bad guy puts a key or something in Sam's pocket and oh noes....meanwhile Bobby has secreted his flask to a drawer so that he can stay in the house with Annie. And yeah, there's a whole bunch of ghostly pickpocketing going on.

I did like how smoothly they had to do it though - I always forget when they do the ghost-Bobby scenes that Jared and Jensen have to act like Jim Beaver isn't two feet beside them yelling at them. And I have to say - it's really hard to do that. I've tried to ignore people while doing extra work, and it's really hard not to glance at people when they're standing RIGHT THERE. I mean, as an extra, I think I'm allowed to glance at people, so it's not a huge deal if I do give them a glance - obviously, ordinarily people passing on the street DO glance at each other, but seriously - try it next time you are walking around or hanging out with your friends - just decide that you're going to not even look at someone. It's difficult.

So, Sam and Dean run off to salt and burn the bad guy....and Sam is doing internet research in the car. Which to me, means that he's got one of those USB internet sticks...because you cannot leach off other people's wireless networks when you are speeding down the highway at 60 miles/hour. 

I liked the fact that the ghost actually sped up the car rather than make the engine die or something else stupid.

And then they empty their pocket shoot the ghost back to the house and then carry on...

And how can the ghost kill Bobby when he doesn't have access to his bones? They made it seem as though the ghost moved the bones into the fire telekinetically while he fisted the victim-ghost...but he didn't have access to the Bobby's bones, so how would that have worked?

I guess we don't have to really worry about it though, because Dean and Sam are speedy burners. 

Then they can see Bobby! WOOt! Only...it is AWKWARD.

And I like that about this show - the fact that it's not WONDERFUL AND AMAZING that Bobby is still around. They aren't overjoyed - they don't burst into tears and tell him how much they miss him...instead they shift on their feet and are HORRIBLY CONFLICTED. Because 1)Ghosts are bad, and 2)They love Bobby...

What memory do they want of Bobby? The hunter who died in battle? The one they gave a Hunter's funeral to, believing that his soul was already in heaven drinking a beer with Ash at Harvelles? (And how much do I love Dean for calling it 'Harvelles'? Answer: A lot.)...or do they want the Bobby who they can't touch, who is against nature, who is slowly going to go crazy and whatever happens will cause things to "not end well."? 

I feel for Bobby too of course, because he's Dean in 2x01. He wants to stay and protect his family, he wants to HELP, and he wants his family to be HAPPY that he stayed to help. He wants, fundamentally, to still be alive - and if he can't be alive, he wants to act just like he is.

But he's not - and I think that's what Annie understood better than him. Annie chalked it up to the fact that she didn't have 'the boys', she only had the work and she couldn't do that anymore - and now she wanted to rest, to be nothing. But, I think, fundamentally, Annie understood that death meant an END to things, not the beginning of different things. She understood that to be dead meant that her time should be over. 

I do think that the boys need Bobby though - I think they are floundering. They can't tell what Dick is up to. We can't even be sure that they have the right numbers - they don't know what Dick is doing and Bobby does! (And FYI: That would have been my first question to Bobby - not the awkward "why didn't you go to heaven?" question, but the "tell me everything you know about Dick Roman...awesome...oops, flask in the fire. Sorry Bobby, I LOVE YOU!"...but yeah, none of my loved ones are ghosts (at least I hope not), so perhaps I shouldn't judge.

Interesting times, to say the least....

Oh, also minor nitpick: Dean did something at the end that I CAN'T STAND, which is to repeat the last sentence of a speech twice. "What are the odds...what. are. the. odds." I hate that. They usually do it all the time in dramatic angsty heartfelt speeches on TV.

And yeah...awkward ending is awkward...but it's way more true to character and therefore realistic that way. 

It's nice to have Jim Beaver back on my screen.



So, thoughts? Feelings?

Next week looks cool too, but I won't spoil the preview for any of you strict spoiler-phobes out there.



Comments

( 48 comments — Leave a comment )
missyjack
Apr. 21st, 2012 05:42 am (UTC)
You are so right about how well the handled the grief with how conflicted the boys were. And Bobby trying to deal with them not being overjoyed.

And all the little domestic touches were just a treat.

Can't wait til next week!

hells_half_acre
Apr. 21st, 2012 06:23 am (UTC)
Next week is what I like to refer to as an Edlund-Edlund episode! Those are always great!

I'm glad you agree about the grief/conflict. I thought they did a superb job of it - emotionally unsatisfying in a good way. ;)
quickreaver
Apr. 21st, 2012 06:26 am (UTC)
I love your reviews but I'm too tired to say something more eloquent so...WELL DONE! And now...zzzzzzz.........
hells_half_acre
Apr. 21st, 2012 06:28 am (UTC)
Thank you and sweet dreams! :)
raloria
Apr. 21st, 2012 08:21 am (UTC)
Enjoyed reading your thoughts, as always. :)
As I said in my review...I think Dean will come around and realize they need Bobby in this fight. I guess I can understand the awkwardness (ghosts are bad), but this is still Bobby, surrogate father and all that. Why not use him if he's willing and able? You're right...they should've asked him about Dick Roman and his plans.
mekina
Apr. 21st, 2012 12:52 pm (UTC)
I enjoyed it, but I'm tired of woobie!Dean, and there wasn't enough focus on Sam and Dean. I want the brothers to be focused on more, and I want our badass hunters of old. ;P I love Bobby, but I don't like him as a ghost. It won't end well. *sigh* Also, Dean is a hypocrite, look how many times he's been back to life, in heaven, hell, and everywhere else, yet he accuses Bobby of messing up the natural order or whatever.

Edited at 2012-04-21 12:54 pm (UTC)
hells_half_acre
Apr. 21st, 2012 05:05 pm (UTC)
I think you had the reaction that you were supposed to have re: Bobby as a ghost. As for Dean being a hypocrit - I'll point out that Dean never CHOSE to do any of those things (besides going to hell and therefore bringing Sam back to life), but I'll point out that the reason he gets mad at Bobby is because Dean has since LEARNED HIS LESSON. Remember Appointment in Samarra? Dean KNOWS now what messing with the natural order does. Furthermore, Bobby hasn't even come back to life, he's a GHOST, which means that Bobby will eventually become an angry ghost...and possibly kill innocent people, unless Dean and Sam put him to rest forcibly...and then the odds are that he won't even go to heaven, where Dean at least liked to picturing him having a beer with Ellen and Jo. So, yeah, basically I'm saying that Dean isn't a hypocrite and that there's good cause to be woobie.

Also, give the guys one break. We get so much Sam and Dean in this show, I think you can survive one episode with a focus on another character - and if you don't like woobie!Dean, you don't actually want the focus to be on Sam and Dean, since you know, if you call THAT woobie, then Dean's basically just not allowed to have emotions anymore.

And that is my overly harsh response to your opinion. Sorry. I haven't had breakfast yet. :P What I mean to say is...

*shrug* to each their own. I hope the next episode is more to your liking! :)
khek
Apr. 21st, 2012 12:52 pm (UTC)
The interactions between Sam and Dean, Dean and Bobby and Sam and Bobby were great. But I didn't care about imitation Ellen at all, and the ghosts kind of didn't make sense.

I thought it was kind of boring, to be honest. I'm hoping it will be an episode I'll like more with a second viewing.
mekina
Apr. 21st, 2012 12:54 pm (UTC)
She kept reminding me of Ellen! I guess I'm not the only one? :D
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vail_kagami
Apr. 21st, 2012 01:10 pm (UTC)
I think Van Ness absorbing the other ghosts and him killing Victoria were two different things. One was, well, absorbtion, for which he needed to come in close contect with the ghosts, the other was a simple salt and burn (or just burn, in this case) so he could kill her from the distance. She didn't know it was coming, so he wasn't anywhere near her when it happened.

I loved your observations on how conflicted they are. Because they are conflicted. And they had just begun to find closure, only to find there is none yet. Sucks to be Bobby as well. Poor guy.
hells_half_acre
Apr. 21st, 2012 05:12 pm (UTC)
And they had just begun to find closure, only to find there is none yet. Sucks to be Bobby as well. Poor guy.

Yeah...remember in Death Takes a Holiday? When Sam and Dean met the ghost kid who was still living with his mother - and they told him that his mother couldn't move on and be happy again as long as she could sense his presence as a ghost? I think that's coming into play here too. Which sucks for the boys and for Bobby.

Good point about the ghost-absorption vs. salt-n-burn!
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dairygirl
Apr. 21st, 2012 02:27 pm (UTC)
I was surprised when Dean brought up the unnatural thing because hello! How many times has he died and been brought back? Granted not as a ghost but still against the natural order of things. Hypocrite
hells_half_acre
Apr. 21st, 2012 05:18 pm (UTC)
Oh, I'm going to have to be unnecessarily harsh on you for a minute: Dean's not a hypocrit, and I'll tell you why: Dean was always brought back ALIVE and against his will (save for when Cas rescued him, which I'm pretty sure is something he wanted to happy.) Staying around as a ghost is a MUCH different thing than being brought back from the dead without any say in the matter.

Furthermore, Dean hasn't died since Appointment in Samarra - and that's when he learned what happens when you mess with the natural order...and that's SOLELY for people who avoid death. He's known since he was a boy what happens to souls that don't go with their reaper - they end up angry, confused, and killing people.

So yeah, NOT a hypocrite.
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franztastisch
Apr. 21st, 2012 04:11 pm (UTC)
Haha oh man, I lvoed tht all three of them had slept with Annie. And I totally see Dean sleepig with her while Sam was at Stanford. And anyway, that makes the most sense as that's basically the only significant period of time where neither John and Sam were hunting with him, I think? ANYWAY. I like that. I think it's funny. And Annie totally would be the sexy older woman. THOUGH I wonder what she thought of Sam, cos she wouldn't have known that he had no soul the first time she met him - it's not like Sam would tell her; "Hi, yeah I'll totally help. Oh and fyi I'm currently without a soul" - so her view of seeing him again would be pretty interesting.

As to Dean saying it's unnatural for Bobby to be there. Well he's right. And he's also a bit of a hypocrite, but not really. Cos bascially, Dean has only made ONE decision to come back/bring someone else back/mess up the order of stuff, and that was his deal to get Sam back. He actively chose that knowing, as Bobby does, the consequences. Every other time, it has been someone elses decision; John, Heaven, Cas, Gabe, Michael, whoever. Sam has never, as far as I can remember, actively succeeded in "messing up the order" himself - again, other people made the decisions (Dean, Cas, Lucifer, Michael, God/Joshua etc) or he didn't succeed (deal attempts).

So yeah. Also, I thought it was weird that Bobby said that he thought that the was "nothing" after death despite the fact that he knows two of the only people in the world who can attest to the existance of both heaven and hell. And I'd find it really weird if heaven and hell were exclusively for those who passed on willingly. Cos seriously, who's pass on willingly to hell? Even if you didn't know how bad it could be, it's still hell.

But overall, I didn't think this was the worlds most interesting episode. Dean just out of the show was lovely though. :P
franztastisch
Apr. 21st, 2012 04:12 pm (UTC)
Oh wow. And aparently I have a lot of opinions. :/
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marlowe78
Apr. 21st, 2012 05:35 pm (UTC)
Hey there. Really enjoyed this ep as well!

Also, is it just me, or do you picture Dean sleeping with Annie when he was a teenager? I totally see her as the older sexy woman seducing a teenage Dean. She'd be any 18 year-old's wet-dream. It's either that, or it would have had to have been while Sam was at Stanford, since otherwise Dean and Sam know all of each other's conquests - except, obviously, Sam's soulless year.

Hee, totally! Though the show said she was "mid-thirties", I truly believe she was at least in her forties ;-) Still, I like the idea of the boys sharing an experience - though not at the same time. hee. Makes it a bit... more realistic? If that's possible...

Cool....time-lining! Isn't it fun?!?! Seriously, I love this crap. It's like logical puzzles, only less annoying.
Hee, it reminds me of sudoku ;-)
But yeah, good reasoning. To spoil your fun: it might be that he's exaggerating the "2 weeks" and really means "long time" ;-)

I mean, as an extra, I think I'm allowed to glance at people, so it's not a huge deal if I do give them a glance - obviously, ordinarily people passing on the street DO glance at each other, but seriously

Ordinary people SURE WOULD glance at Sam and Dean in the streets. Just saying.... Ignoring them makes it unrealistic ;-)


And how can the ghost kill Bobby when he doesn't have access to his bones? They made it seem as though the ghost moved the bones into the fire telekinetically while he fisted the victim-ghost...but he didn't have access to the Bobby's bones, so how would that have worked?


Oh, good question! Maybe he drains the ghosts first, and they CAN re-appear later (until they are dried out) and he only burns their bones after that? Or he only burned Victoria's bones and not the others? I mean, he wouldn't have had Dexter's bones, would he?

So my guess is that he can drain them and use their power for his own good (more or less completely, as I think it was implied that he drains the ghosts piece by piece) AND he can burn the bones. And he keeps the bones a) so he can keep the ghosts and b) so he has a safety-net for getting rid of them without having to come close.

I feel for Bobby too of course, because he's Dean in 2x01. He wants to stay and protect his family, he wants to HELP, and he wants his family to be HAPPY that he stayed to help. He wants, fundamentally, to still be alive - and if he can't be alive, he wants to act just like he is.

Yes, yes yes. And he's sad that the boys don't seem too happy to have him. I would be, even though I'd never admit it. I think that's why he was so sad in the last scene: he wanted to help them, but he just then realized that maybe he didn't do them a favor by staying, because now they have to get him "buried" a second time, have to say goodbye once more. Poor Bobby. :-( Poor Boys :-(



I really, really really loved this episode, and having Bobby on screen is always amazing. .
hells_half_acre
Apr. 21st, 2012 05:45 pm (UTC)
Hee, totally! Though the show said she was "mid-thirties", I truly believe she was at least in her forties ;-) Still, I like the idea of the boys sharing an experience - though not at the same time. hee. Makes it a bit... more realistic? If that's possible...

Yeah, I agree that she looked like she was in her forties. In anycase, I see her as being AT LEAST 4-5 years older than Dean. Which, if they were something like 18 and 22, would still make her an awesome "older" woman. But, maybe they were 24 and 30 or something like that.

Haha, yeah, sudoku is a form of logic puzzle...and yeah, I realize that Bobby might have been hyperbolic or estimating in his "two weeks" statement - but I have so little to go on with timelining that I will take what I can get! :P

Good idea re: ghost draining vs. burning! I bet that's the case.

And poor Bobby and poor boys...very true that this means they're just going to have to grieve him all over again.

katsheswims
Apr. 21st, 2012 06:57 pm (UTC)
I also loved the shower scene! Dean's wet hair made him look so cute!

I was thinking that evil guy ghost knew some kind of magic (necromancy or something) to make him able to absorb other ghost's essences(?). Though they never stated that. Maybe he was just more knowledgeable than other ghosts and before they figured out the absorbing trick he was too powerful for them to take on? I don't think he needed their bodies/bones to drain them-he just had them in the house to keep the ghosts trapped there. (He MUST have had some magical training to do all this!) He did burn Victoria's bones because I guess he didn't want to risk showing himself to 2 hunters yet and he wanted to shut her up.

Edited at 2012-04-21 06:57 pm (UTC)
hells_half_acre
Apr. 21st, 2012 06:58 pm (UTC)
Makes sense to me! :)
cordelia_gray
Apr. 21st, 2012 07:13 pm (UTC)
Agree so much about all the ambivalence about Bobby! He stayed for them, and yet - it just muddies things. They need him, but he should have moved on - how can it end well?

Though maybe, if he can help them take down the Leviathans, that will take care of his unfinished business, and he'll be able to move on. *hopes*
hells_half_acre
Apr. 21st, 2012 07:15 pm (UTC)
That's what I'm hoping too! :)
fourtenpm
Apr. 22nd, 2012 06:48 am (UTC)
And how can the ghost kill Bobby when he doesn't have access to his bones?

I think it's because Bobby kept the flask at the house. The master ghost guy, supposedly a very powerful ghost, knew about it, somehow
hells_half_acre
Apr. 22nd, 2012 06:55 am (UTC)
Hmm...perhaps perhaps. :)
( 48 comments — Leave a comment )

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