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Finally at the Finale! You know, I was looking forward to being finished with my rewatches, but now I'm kind of sad that they are over. :P

This is an interesting episode in terms of Sam's clothes. Both Soulless!Sam and Hell!Sam are wearing the clothes that Sam wore when he fell. BlankSlate!Sam (or Sam!Sam, as I call him, because it's fun to say) is wearing the clothes he was wearing when Cas hurt him.

CARRY ON MY WAYWARD SON....
.
I love their reuse of neon signs in Sam's mind. It's gorgeous, because you can just imagine how many neon signs are stored in Sam's memory, and how they must populate his dreamscape quite a bit.

"What's your name?"
"I don't know."
"What do you mean you don't know"
"I mean I don't remember, I don't remember anything."
-I remember watching this for the first time and not knowing it was a dream, and thinking "HOLY HELL!?!" I kind of like jumping into things in media-res. 

"What's the last thing you remember?"
"I woke up on a park bench, cops shoving a flashlight into my face, trying to take me in-"
"So you ran"
"No, I um, I knocked them out cold, both of them."
-Sam Winchester is Jason Bourne. 

"Some instinct."
"Yeah, tell me about it, I mean who even knows how to do stuff like that?"
- I sort of think of BlankSlate!Sam as how Sam would think if he weren't a Hunter...obviously, ingrained fighters instincts aside...but the way he sees things. "Who even knows how to do that stuff?" and "Maybe you're a hooker" ...but we'll get to that.

I like this bartender lady, because she's a construct of Sam's mind. She's kind of a cross between Dean and Ruby...I mean, she's petite (compared to Sam) and burnette, but some of her phrasing is very Dean-like...and she's not evil. I wonder, sometimes, if Soulless!Sam slept with her before he killed her - or if she really was just a random bartender chick that for some reason stuck out in Sam's memory.

"You think you're staying in this dump?"
"Maybe"
"Maybe you're a hooker."
"Ha, I guess I'll find out."
-Mmm, hooker!Sammy....seriously though, I love this, because it's basically how Sam would interpret his life if he didn't know himself. It's what Sam would think of cheap motels if he didn't constantly stay in them. 

The motel room as all the stuff pinned to the walls - they usually don't mark up the walls that much anymore...but I imagine that's what the walls of Sam's mind look like - since he's the researcher of the family. Like he constantly has the cases spread out visually in his head, whether or not he does so in real life. I know that I always tend to think in charts and graphs, and I kind of blame that on my mathematics-leaning family. Sam probably thinks in pieces of paper pinned to a wall.

"Nice to meet you Jimmy Page, and Neil Pert, and Angus Young...ok, no offense, but I'm really starting to freak out."
-It's also interesting how Sam remembers his aliases before he remembers his actual name. Because everything the bartender says, is just an extension of what Sam is thinking.

"Oh El, what've they done to you?"
"Everything, the demon I could have handled, you know? But when the angel stepped in, I...I told them Bobby."
- I love Bobby, because even though he's found out that Eleanor is a monster, it doesn't change how tender he is with her, or how much it hurts him to see her injured/dying.

"I'm sorry this had to happen. Crowley got carried away."
"Yeah, I bet it was all Crowley, you son of a bitch!" 
-Yeah, it looks REALLY bad when the dead girl says it was the angel, and then the angel shows up and blames it on the demon. That does not win you any points Castiel. Also, it makes me wonder how Bobby feels about Cas now...that's never really explored in the show, but Castiel DID just kill someone dear to Bobby....not to mention that Bobby loves Sam too.

"You don't see it do you? How totally off the rails you are!"
"Enough! I don't care what you think. I've tried to make you understand, you won't listen. So let me make this simple: Please go home and let me stop Raphael, I won't ask again."
"Well good, because I think you already know the answer."
"I wish it hadn't come to this. Well, rest assured, when this is all over, I will save Sam, but only if you stand down."
"Save Sam from what?"
-And then bam. Castiel performs his final act of betrayal - the one act that is nearly impossible to come back from when it comes to Dean Winchester. Did he really think that Dean would stand down? Did he really think it would work? Or did he know that he had just doomed his friend to torment, already knowing that he would never fulfill his promise to fix him, because Dean would never stand down? If things had gone differently, would he really punish Sam for Dean not standing down? Sam is supposed to be Castiel's friend too, after all, and all things considered, he's a far better friend to have in your corner than Dean, since Sam is much more forgiving of trespasses.

Damn, Jared is good looking...uh, sorry, distracted again.

"It's all pretty spotty. I just remember, I was with two guys. One was like a male-model type, and the other was an older guy. Named...Bobby."
-I also think it's funny that Sam remembers Bobby's name before he remembers Dean. Actually, he pretty much doesn't remember Dean until he gets his memories back from Soulless!Sam...that being said, I think that itch that is driving him to find answers is Dean, whether or not he has a name for it. I think the urgency is Sam remembering Dean - knowing that there is SOMEONE depending on him. Even if he can't put it into words.

"How are you going to get there?"
"I guess I'll take my car."
*
"That's mine!"
"You sure"
"Oh, yeah"
-I love this because 1)Sam is so happy to see the car. Dean is not the only one who absolutely adores his baby. 2)Sam walks up to the PASSENGER SIDE with the keys.

"I've got a bad feeling, those ids and the shady ass hotel rooms - whatever you're looking for, you might not like what you find."
"What other choice do I have?"
"You could stick around here a little longer, get your head straight, instead of going off flying blind-"
- I sometimes wonder, if Sam could have stayed in his own head a little longer - would he have been able to deal with the memories better? Or would it have happened exactly the way it did no matter what.

"What the hell was that? Sam! Sammy!"
-I love how the bartender's voice morphs into Deans.

"I can't just sit here, Bobby, I have got to help him. Dreamscape his noggin, SOMETHING."
"Dean, you know what Cas did. The dam inside your brother's head is gone, and all hell is spilling loose, we don't know what's inside-"
"I don't care, we have got to do something!"
"And we will! But right now we got 16 hours until they pop purgatory. I'm down one man, I can't afford to be down two."
- It was a good plan of Castiel's, because Dean isn't shouting about how they have to stop Castiel - he's shouting about how they have to do something for Sam. And man, I'd LOVE an AU where Dean actually does dreamscape Sam's noggin.

"You know, this is exactly what Cas wants - for you to fall to pieces. Just try to think about what Sam would want."
"Find Cas, Bobby, find him now."
- And I love this exchange, because Bobby knows how to get Dean to focus on something else, while still keeping it about Sam. And Dean, well, Dean is going to kill that angel - or at least get him to fix his brother.

I love the way the outside world affects Sam's inside world...the song on the radio, the smell of whiskey...the light.

"It was night and now it's day!"
-Oh Sam, I love you.

"I am all filled up on crazy for the day, see ya"
"Hey hey hey wait! Get in the car."
-You know, sometimes, Sam really does look like a psychotic killer.

"My god, am I really that gawky? Howdy."
"this is impossible."
"Cold. Try again"
"I'm hallucinating."
"Warmer. But see, normally, you're awake when you're tripping balls."
"I'm dreaming?"
"And someone just won a copy of the home game. We're inside your grapefruit, Sam. Son, you've been juiced."
-Soulless!Sam uses phrasing very similar to Lucifer. I also like the way he addresses Sam!Sam as "son", because Soulless!Sam feels like the superior one.

"Well, your BFF Cas brought the hell wall come tumbling down, and you, pathetic infant that you are, fell to pieces. Piece. Piece."
-We spend a lot of time in the show on Castiel and Dean's friendship, but not so much on Sam and Castiel's. It really didn't occur to me until this point, because I was so focused on the fact that Castiel was Dean's only friend...that I kind of forgot that he was basically Sam's only friend too. They aren't as close as Dean and Castiel, but that actually makes the friendship more intriguing to me. It's sort of like being friends with a couple (on both sides), most often, you were friends with the single-person before they met their partner, and then you become friends with the partner because you basically have to. Or, you ARE part of a couple, and your partner brings home a friend from work one day and that's how you meet...and yeah, this is starting to sound like a threesome, but you get my point right? It's an interesting dynamic. And I know that Dean was hit really hard by what he see's as Castiel's betrayal, but Sam was hit too - and part of me wonders if maybe part of the reason it was easier for Sam to forgive Castiel, was because he figured that Castiel never cared that much about him in the first place - since the main friendship was between Dean and Castiel, and the friendship with Sam was basically circumstance and necessity. I'm just rambling at this point. Ignore me.

"You think I'm bad. Wait 'til you meet the other one."
-It's interesting how the pieces of Sam are aware of each other.

"I remember who I am. Everything I did this past year. And I remember you."
-Again, it makes me wonder why this bartender stuck out in his memory so much - was it her looks? the circumstances? Just the fact that Sam killed her when she was innocent?

"Didn't I tell you to turn back, that you wouldn't like what you found."
"I'm sorry. I'm so sorry."
-Now Sam is channeling the Tenth Doctor. :P

"How's sleeping beauty? You didn't steal any kisses, I trust."
-Ah, the wincest digs. 

"I'm betraying a friend here! A very powerful friend. So I think I've stuck my neck out far enough already."
-Again, I never really warmed to Balthazar, but I do like how he was a reluctant spy. When Cas rebelled against the other angels with the Winchesters, he did it whole heartedly - but Balthazar only goes against Castiel the bare minimum he feels he needs to.

"I'm renegotiating our terms."
"Is that so? What terms do you purpose?"
"You get nothing. Not one single soul."
"Kinda noticed, it seems a bit unfairly weighted...Castiel, you wouldn't dare. I brought you this deal."
"You think I'm handing all that power to the King of Hell. I'm neither stupid nor wicked."
"Unbelievable. Have you forgotten that you're the bottom in this relationship?"
"Here are your options, you either flee or die."
-CAKE OR DEATH?! 
-I do think that Castiel plays in naivety to his advantage here...though, it doesn't stay an advantage for long.

"Hey, HEY!"
"Oh, hi Sam."
"So, which one are you?"
"Don't you know? I'm the one that remembers Hell."
-Oh Sammy.

"Times up, Dean."
"Just a sec."
- I like how Bobby tells Dean that "time's up" as though Bobby at one point said "You have a half an hour to sit and stare at Sam, and then we have to go," and Dean was like "okay :(" and then sat and stared at Sam.

"Ok, this is where we're going to be, Sam. So get your lazy ass out of bed and come meet us. Sammy, please."
- I really don't think it's a good idea to leave a loaded gun next to the head of a comatose person who has frequent seizures and may wake up psychotic...but hey, that's me.

"I wish you hadn't come, Sam."
"I had to. I'm here, right? Out there in the real world, I'm at Bobby's, aren't I?"
"How do you know?"
"This whole time, I've smelled nothing but old spice and whiskey. I figured if I could get back here, back to my body, I could- I don't know, I could snap out of it somehow."
- I love that we get to know what Bobby's place smells like. It immerses us in the world better...because yeah, on TV we get sight and sound, but it's not very often we're told what things smell like.

"First you have to go through me."
"Why?" 
"Humpty Dumpty has to put himself back together again, before he can wake up. And I'm the last piece."
"Which means, I have to know what you know - what happened in the cage."
"Trust me, you don't want to know it."
"You're right, but I still have to."
"Sam, you can't imagine, stay here, go back, find that bartender, find Jess. I know you, you're not strong enough."
-It's interesting to me that again, the bartender comes up as an option...did he just like the look of her? Is it because she's a construct of his mind, and he can make her into the perfect girl? 
-On another note, it's interesting that staying in his head forever is also an option...and it's an option where he never has to remember hell. He can live with a recreated version of Jess (who would, no doubt, be a beautiful saint without flaws)...it makes me want to write an AU, where Sam DOES stay in his head, and Dean dreamscapes him to come visit...and they sit around in Sam's brain and Dean fills him in on everything that is going on in the real world...and sometimes Dean goes in and finds Hell!Sam, and he visits with him too, though they don't really talk, they just sit there in silence, and Dean tries to comfort him, but mostly it's Dean that cries...and eventually Sam sees them together, and realizes that he really can't hide from his memories forever.

"Why is it so important to you?"
"You know me, you know why - I'm not leaving my brother alone out there."
-And this line pretty much sums up the series. When Dean admitted to not wanting to be alone in the Pilot, Sam went with him. It wasn't their missing father, it wasn't the people dying on that highway...it was the fact that Sam didn't want his brother to be alone anymore than Dean wanted to be alone.

"I'm not going to fight you, but this is your last chance. Good luck, you're going to need it."
-Stabbing is so personal...I like the fact that they chose that method of killing Hell!Sam rather than the gun.

"Apparently, we have a Judas in our midsts."
"Oh, haha, holy hell..."
-The first time I watched this, I thought Castiel already knew that Balthazar had betrayed him...but now, you can actually see the realization on his face when Balthazar speaks here.

"First Sam and Dean, and now this. I'm doing my best in impossible circumstances. My friends they abandon me, plot against me, it's difficult to understand."
"Well, you've always got little old me."
*Cas stabs him*
"Yes, I'll always have you."
"Cas."
-Again, I never warmed to Balthazar, but I do like his death. I thought it was shot and acted quite beautifully.

Crowley's lab! I've been to that location! A couple times now, because I went back with my sister. She was mostly jealous that it's some artists actual studio.

"We'll ninja our way in."
"Awesome, until they hear your knees squeak."
- I made one of my physiotherapists laugh, because I was talking about my bad knees and how I've recovered over the past 5 years, and he asked "how are they now?" and I said "Well, I'll never be a ninja, but they're okay."

"Holy mother of-"
"Get in the car! Get in the car!"
-NOooooo! POOR CAR. And you just KNOW those demons did it on purpose.

"Never underestimate the King of Hell darling, I know a lot of swell tricks. Now, I think it's time to re-renegotiate our terms."
-It's basically a game of who is underestimating whom at this point.

"Consorting with demons, I thought that was beneath you."
"I heard you were doing it. Sounded like fun."
-This is also the problem with angels and free will "Did you hear what so and so did?" "We can do that?" "I guess so!" Haha...joking, of course, Raphael is only doing this for the souls.

"You fool, Raphael will deceive and destroy you at the speed of thought."
- I do like the way Misha acts this scene, because he IS afraid of Raphael, who can explode him (and has) very easily.

"Castiel, you really think I would let you open that door take in all that power. If anyone is going to be the new God, it's going to be me."
"He's bring the apocalypse and worse..."
"Hey this is your doing mate, I'm just taking the best offer on the table. Now, you have two options: Flee or die."
-It does make me wonder what Crowley's end game was - whatever it was, Castiel derailed it.

SAM!
-It must suck to discover that your home has been flipped upsidedown.

"Enough of these games, Castiel. Give us the blood."
"Game's over. His jar's empty. So, Castiel, how did your little ritual go? Better than ours, I'll bet."
-I really do wonder if Raphael really thought there was blood in that jar, or if maybe s/he was just in denial...because it seems Crowley gets it right away, and even Raphael has an odd thinking look.

"You can't imagine what it's like. They're all inside me. Millions upon millions of souls."
"Sounds sexy, exit stage Crowley."
- I love that line.

"Castiel, you let the demon go, but not your own brother."
"The demon I have plans for. You on the other hand."
-EXPLODED! Again, this sort of negates my "angels don't have gender" wish, because Raphael still refers to himself as a "brother" even though he is in a woman's body. 

"So you see, I saved you."
"Sure did, Cas, thank you."
"You doubted me, fought against me, but I was right all along."
"Ok, Cas, you were. We're sorry. Let's just diffuse you, okay?"
"What do you mean?"
"You're full of nuke. It's not safe. So before the eclipse ends, let's get them souls back where they belong."
"Oh, no, they belong with me."
"No, Cas, it's scrambling your brain."
"I'm not finished yet. Raphael had many followers, and I must punish them all severely."
"Listen to me, I know there's a lot of bad water under the bridge, but we were family once. I'd have died for you - I almost did a few times. So, if that means anything to you, please. I've lost Lisa, I've lost Ben, now I've lost Sam, don't make me lose you too. You don't need this kind of juice anymore Cas! Get rid of it before it kills us all."
"You're just saying that because I won, because you're afraid. You're not my family, Dean. I have no family."
-The sad thing is that Dean ISN'T saying this because he's afraid. Yes, he's still angry, but if Castiel put the souls back right away and told Dean that it had been his plan along to only use them temporarily to kill Raphael...oh, and you know, fix Sam again...Dean might have been put on a quicker road to forgiveness...but instead Castiel makes the mistake of refusing Dean's offer of being family and alienating himself further from them.
-It also says a lot that Dean says he's "lost Sam"...I think that speaks to how little hope Dean has that Sam will be okay. I think it might also explain why Dean doesn't quite believe Sam when Sam insists that he's okay in S7.

"I'm glad you made it, Sam, but the angel blade won't work, because I'm not an angel anymore. I'm your new god, a better one. So you will bow down and profess your love unto me, your lord, or I shall destroy you."
-Yeah...I don't think God ever had to threaten to destroy people if they didn't profess their love for him...I mean, he could refuse them access to heaven, but I think that's as nasty as he got...at least in the New Testament anyway.

Again, I'm still not a fan of ending things on a tight shot of the eyes...I'd have preferred a wide shot, but that's nitpicky.

...dun dun...DONE!

Now it's just a quick run through of the special features, and I can put my S6 DVDs on the shelf for a bit. :)

Tags:

Comments

( 27 comments — Leave a comment )
franztastisch
Oct. 30th, 2011 11:42 pm (UTC)
OK, everything you said about the bartender? About how she's a construct of Sam's mind? This is why I find Hallucination Lucifer so depressing. Because Lucifer is in the Cage. Hallcination Lucifer is a contruct of Sam's mind. And yeah, there's a lot of Hell memories to build upon, but some of that has to be Sam, and how Sam thinks about himself and his life deep down. Sam killing himself to end it, Sam's life being a mess, Dean being better off without Sam. It's memories and thoughs melding together. And I just want to HUG HIM. :(

"Sounds sexy, exit stage Crowley." < reason #12423512341 why I love Crowley.

Oh, and you've got to write that dreamwalking AU now. Just fyi. :)
hells_half_acre
Oct. 30th, 2011 11:52 pm (UTC)
I agree, we're all our worst critic - but that seems doubly true for Sam. He needs ALL OF THE HUGS!! (Dean too though, because he's not much better off.)

Oh, and you've got to write that dreamwalking AU now. Just fyi. :)

I am my own downfall. I also thought of another demented'verse story, plus I haven't even got the first chapter of The Novel Project prepared yet, I'm supposed to start work on Tuesday, and I've got a 7 week Substantive Editing course that I have homework for...I NEED TO STOP HAVING IDEAS!
ramblin_rosie
Oct. 31st, 2011 12:28 am (UTC)
I NEED TO STOP HAVING IDEAS!
HEE! And here I was thinking I ought to say, "Be careful what you wish for--I might just write it...."
hells_half_acre
Oct. 31st, 2011 12:47 am (UTC)
Haha, hey, if you get to my ideas first, there's nothing I can do to stop you. ;)
quickreaver
Oct. 31st, 2011 02:08 am (UTC)
Oh, wow, I love this realization! It's SO very true and poignant. I hope you don't mind if I borrow it for a ficlet I'm writing.

Your metas are da bomb. (And I'll be sure to credit the muse, here! :D)
hells_half_acre
Oct. 31st, 2011 02:11 am (UTC)
Ooo, be sure to send me the link when you write the ficlet. :)

And thank you!

Edited at 2011-10-31 02:11 am (UTC)
quickreaver
Oct. 31st, 2011 02:44 am (UTC)
Oh, you betcha!
franztastisch
Nov. 1st, 2011 02:33 pm (UTC)
IF THEY WOULD JUST COME TO ME I WOULD GIVE THEM ALL THESE HUGS. But alas.

NO YOU DON'T. :D And ooh! Demented!verse stories! You know? I love your brian. :P
vail_kagami
Oct. 31st, 2011 12:11 am (UTC)
Again, this sort of negates my "angels don't have gender" wish, because Raphael still refers to himself as a "brother" even though he is in a woman's body.

In my personal head-canon, this can be blamed on limitations of the English language more than anything else. (In my personal head-canon, it's also silly that angels speak English when among themselves, but I admit that speaking Enochian would kinda make it hard for the viewer to follow.)

I've lost Lisa, I've lost Ben, now I've lost Sam, don't make me lose you too.

There's something that always rubbed me in the wrong way about Dean's words. Because it seems he's forgetting that he lost Lisa and Ben, and most of all Sam, because of Cas - or that he just doesn't care. Like, he's so dependent on having someone to cling to that he doesn't really care who it is, and everything Cas has done is forgiven if only he doesn't leave Dean. He "killed" Sam? That's okay, as long as he replaces him.
I know this wasn't meant this way, but it's still an unfortunate choice of words the writers put into Dean's mouth here.
hells_half_acre
Oct. 31st, 2011 12:27 am (UTC)
In my personal head-canon, this can be blamed on limitations of the English language more than anything else.

Ooo, I like that theory! I will believe that now, so that I can keep my genderless angels. :)

Like, he's so dependent on having someone to cling to that he doesn't really care who it is, and everything Cas has done is forgiven if only he doesn't leave Dean.

That's a good point, at the same time, I'm not sure it's completely a mistake on the part of the writers - it DOES actually sound a bit like Dean (at least until you get to the 'killed' Sam part.)

I think that part of Dean was thinking that as long as Cas was still his friend, there was a chance that Cas would heal Sam for him. At least, that's how I heard it.
vail_kagami
Oct. 31st, 2011 12:41 am (UTC)
I think that part of Dean was thinking that as long as Cas was still his friend, there was a chance that Cas would heal Sam for him. At least, that's how I heard it.

I like your interpretation a lot more than mine, in any case!

There have been a few things about Dean, mostly in regard to Sam, that rubbed me in the wrong way. Don't get me wrong - there's no doubt for me that Dean is absolutely in love with his brother (in the platonic, brotherly way, of course :P) and I could watch Like a Virgin over and over just for how in love with Sam Dean is, but sometimes he kind of failed to express it.
Main example (and this must be only me, since I never saw it mentioned anywhere else and maybe I just missed something vital here): Dean's motivation for getting Sam's soul back seems to be the fact that he doesn't like soulless Sam. He likes Sam with a soul, he doesn't like Sam without a soul, ergo, Sam needs his soul back. At no point did he bring up the very important fact that they should get Sam's soul out of Hell so that Sam would not be in Hell and, you know, being tortured for all eternity.

Maybe this can be blamed on Dean's inability to see things from anything but his own perspective, but, no, that doesn't work here. He's been to Hell, he can sympathize. Dean's actually always been pretty good at sympathizing if he can identify with a problem because he's been there himself. Which leaves me wondering if this was an oversight by the writers, there was a deeper meaning to it, or it's really just me...

On an unrelated note, would you mind if I friend you? I'd like to keep an eye out for your entries!
hells_half_acre
Oct. 31st, 2011 12:46 am (UTC)
Which leaves me wondering if this was an oversight by the writers, there was a deeper meaning to it, or it's really just me...

It's NOT just you. I had the same problem with a lot of the episodes that discuss getting Sam's soul back. And, sadly, I do think it was an oversight by the writers - who seemed too preoccupied with what was happening on earth, rather than what was happening in hell. It doesn't make ANY sense from a character level, especially when it comes to Dean, and it annoyed the crap out of me.

On an unrelated note, would you mind if I friend you? I'd like to keep an eye out for your entries!

Go ahead! The more the merrier! :)
vail_kagami
Oct. 31st, 2011 12:58 am (UTC)
Thanks! Friended you!

Glad it wasn't just me!
I guess you're right about the writer oversight - though it seems to be quite a big thing not to see. At least it was the first thing that came to my mind whenever Sam's soul still being in Hell was mentioned.
At least with Cas seeming to think it would be better for Sam to be left in Hell we can conjure some kind of explanation for this messed-up logic. Even though it's not a pretty one.
percysowner
Oct. 31st, 2011 01:34 am (UTC)
You can add me to the group who was always upset that no one seemed to want to get Sam out just to stop his suffering. I NEVER understood why Dean didn't tell Castiel that if Sam's soul was so destroyed then Cas should take Sam to heaven so he could rest. If Cas had said that Sam's soul was in too bad shape for that to work the whole story would have been slightly more palatable.


I've lost Lisa, I've lost Ben, now I've lost Sam, don't make me lose you too.

I admit, I always handwaved this speech as Dean trying to keep Castiel's attention because he saw Sam sneaking up behind Castiel with the sword. I mean let's face it, Sam isn't small enough to not be seen by Dean coming up behind Cas and he was probably seizing and in bad shape. I don't see how Dean could have missed him. I really don't want to think that Dean is SO desperate for companionship that he would be friends with Sam's murderer just to avoid being alone, especially since Bobby was still alive. If he was willing to swap Cas for Sam then Dean really needed to make a bunch of apologies to Sam for blaming him for taking up with Ruby, since Ruby had supposedly been trying to save Dean and not kill him before Dean died. I mean, at least Sam didn't make friends with Lilith after Dean went to Hell.
hells_half_acre
Oct. 31st, 2011 01:43 am (UTC)
I mean, at least Sam didn't make friends with Lilith after Dean went to Hell.

LOL....sorry, I just had to laugh at the idea of that.

I admit, I always handwaved this speech as Dean trying to keep Castiel's attention because he saw Sam sneaking up behind Castiel with the sword.

Oh yeah! How quickly I forget (or don't think of that)...it's sort of hard to miss your giant Sasquatch brother sneaking up behind the dude you are talking to. In which case, the "I've lost Sam" is the perfect way to say "Sam is definitely not sneaking up behind you right now with an angel sword." And the "don't make me lose you too" is code for "say something right now that's worthy of me stopping my brother from justifiably killing you."
galwithglasses
Oct. 31st, 2011 03:08 am (UTC)
I think while Dean is saying these thing to Cas, Jensen looks away from Cas pretty deliberately and I think that might be when Dean sees Sam coming in. Evidently Sam still has ninja knees.

In this last little bit talking to Cas about how he's Dean's family, Dean gives him the same kind of last chance that he gave Samuel. I don't think Sam stabs Cas until after Cas turns Dean down and rejects him as family like Samuel does. If the angel sword had worked, Sam would have been the one who killed them both.
hells_half_acre
Oct. 31st, 2011 03:15 am (UTC)
If the angel sword had worked, Sam would have been the one who killed them both.

Ooo, very true.
ramblin_rosie
Oct. 31st, 2011 12:26 am (UTC)
I know you're an atheist, and I hope you won't take this comment the wrong way, but I had to respond to this line:

I don't think God ever had to threaten to destroy people if they didn't profess their love for him
--because you're absolutely right, and there's a TON of textual support I could give for that. But here are a few examples:

Psalm 130:3-4:
If you, O LORD, kept a record of sins,
O Lord, who could stand?
But with you there is forgiveness;
therefore you are feared.

Psalm 145:8-9:
The LORD is gracious and compassionate,
slow to anger and rich in love.
The LORD is good to all;
he has compassion on all he has made.

Isaiah 1:18:
“Come now, let us reason together,”
says the LORD.
“Though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red as crimson,
they shall be like wool.”

Isaiah 40:9-11:
You who bring good tidings to Zion,
go up on a high mountain.
You who bring good tidings to Jerusalem,
lift up your voice with a shout,
lift it up, do not be afraid;
say to the towns of Judah,
“Here is your God!”
See, the Sovereign LORD comes with power,
and his arm rules for him.
See, his reward is with him,
and his recompense accompanies him.
He tends his flock like a shepherd:
He gathers the lambs in his arms
and carries them close to his heart;
he gently leads those that have young.

Lamentations 3:21-23:
Yet this I call to mind
and therefore I have hope:
Because of the LORD’s great love we are not consumed,
for his compassions never fail.
They are new every morning;
great is your faithfulness.

Micah 6:8:
He has showed you, O man, what is good.
And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.

Romans 5:8:
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

1 John 4:10:
This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.

That may not be the God of SPN, but it is the God I know.
hells_half_acre
Oct. 31st, 2011 12:39 am (UTC)
I really appreciate your comment and your knowledge of religion....so no worries about it being taken the wrong way! I went to a Christian-based school when I was young (and the Anglican church), so I know a little bit, but not a lot...and I really like learning about different cultures and faiths from people who are obviously much more well versed than I am.

This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us...

YES! This is how I always liked to think of God too, and if I were to believe, this line describes the God that I would believe in.

And it is, in fact, the complete opposite of what Castiel is saying at the end of this episode. Which really points out how Castiel is like a child who demands love. Whereas God (at least the New Testament God) is a being that IS love.

Edited at 2011-10-31 12:40 am (UTC)
percysowner
Oct. 31st, 2011 01:51 am (UTC)
I always thought that Robin was someone who slept with Soulless!Sam. Mostly because after Unforgiven I kind of made it my head canon that SS had the same track record that Sam did, if a woman willingly slept with him, they ended up dead. I decided the prostitute lived because it started as a business transaction and SS kept it business. I even decided that SS got tired of having to leave town or answer questions as to why the girl he slept with ended up dead every time he slept with someone, so he turned to prostitutes and when they didn't turn up dead he went with what worked. Because really, I can't come up with a reason in the world why SS would have to pay anyone to get laid.

As far as Sam's friendship with Cas, I never really bought it. All of a sudden in Abandon All Hope, Cas blithely tells Lucifer that Sam is his friend and I thought "when did that happen, you have barely said 10 friendly words to Sam?". I saw a whole lot more of the writers telling us that Cas was Sam's friend and very little showing. In 99 Problems Cas is still calling Sam an abomination and he was actively supportive of Sam jumping into the Cage with Lucifer and he didn't seem all that concerned about Sam's suffering. It seemed like he brought Sam back more for Dean than for Sam himself. I just never really bought the friendship with Sam and I think Sam accepted that.
hells_half_acre
Oct. 31st, 2011 02:00 am (UTC)
I even decided that SS got tired of having to leave town or answer questions as to why the girl he slept with ended up dead every time he slept with someone, so he turned to prostitutes and when they didn't turn up dead he went with what worked. Because really, I can't come up with a reason in the world why SS would have to pay anyone to get laid.

This is both hilarious, and probably true. :P

In 99 Problems Cas is still calling Sam an abomination

The thing with Cas though, is that the way he says this isn't an insult. It's a fact. To Castiel, it's like saying "Sam, of course, has brown hair." It's not actually a comment on how much he likes or doesn't like Sam, or the status of their friendship.

That being said, I agree with your over all point about Sam and Cas's friendship. We never really do get to see it. We're told it's there, but it's either a MUCH more casual friendship than Supernatural is used to - or it's not actually there, they just say it is for Dean's sake.

I do wish the writers would have done more showing rather than telling.

Edited at 2011-10-31 02:01 am (UTC)
katsheswims
Nov. 1st, 2011 04:16 am (UTC)
"...it makes me want to write an AU, where Sam DOES stay in his head, and Dean dreamscapes him to come visit...and they sit around in Sam's brain and Dean fills him in on everything that is going on in the real world...and sometimes Dean goes in and finds Hell!Sam, and he visits with him too, though they don't really talk, they just sit there in silence, and Dean tries to comfort him, but mostly it's Dean that cries...and eventually Sam sees them together, and realizes that he really can't hide from his memories forever." DO IT!!! Write it!!!

I love your re-watches. Always entertaining and you usually mention something I didn't notice or think much about.
hells_half_acre
Nov. 1st, 2011 04:20 am (UTC)
Thanks...and yeah, I'm totally going to have to write that thing. Patience, I've got SO MUCH crap to do. :P
borgmama1of5
Sep. 2nd, 2012 11:03 pm (UTC)
"it makes me want to write an AU, where Sam DOES stay in his head, and Dean dreamscapes him to come visit...and they sit around in Sam's brain and Dean fills him in on everything that is going on in the real world...and sometimes Dean goes in and finds Hell!Sam, and he visits with him too, though they don't really talk, they just sit there in silence, and Dean tries to comfort him, but mostly it's Dean that cries...and eventually Sam sees them together, and realizes that he really can't hide from his memories forever."

So when are you going to write this???
hells_half_acre
Sep. 2nd, 2012 11:10 pm (UTC)
Nov. 14, 2011.

Don't worry, you liked it. ;)
borgmama1of5
Sep. 3rd, 2012 01:36 am (UTC)
Whoops!

But it was totally worth a reread :)

I just did a season 6 rewatch in preparation for the season 7 release, and I reread your rewatches along with my watching. (Confused yet?)

Maybe the distance, maybe having season 7 in between, but I liked 6 a lot better after this viewing than I remember liking it, if that makes sense?

I think Robo!Sam was very effective; the joy 'I have my brother back' after Sam was resouled was brilliantly played by Jensen; watching 'The Man Who would be King' was like watching a train wreck in slow motion and being helpless; and the final two episodes just totally killed! The only thing that still really made me sad was the wasted potential of all the Campbells and the copout of the accidental death of the girl with the haunted kidney. Though I sorta see why they couldn't resolve it any other way in a one-hour episode...

I am really looking forward to rewatching 7...and I am DYING for October 3!
hells_half_acre
Sep. 3rd, 2012 01:43 am (UTC)
Haha, I'm glad you like rereading my rewatches as you rewatch in preparation for watching. ;)

I'm looking forward to rewatching S7 when it comes out. I usually get it sometime in October, because that's when my birthday is. It also depends on who is selling it for how much...and whether it's cheaper for me to get my sister in the states to send it up, or to buy it in Canada...

I too liked most of S6 and yeah, agree with everything you said above.

But I'm also REALLY looking forward to October 3rd, which I find amazing given that I usually don't make it to the eighth season of any show without losing interest - but Supernatural seems to have found a way to constantly hold my attention.
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