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Quick Reaction: 12x09 First Blood

HELLO!

We're back!

Let's just launch right into it, because it's already after 11 and I have work in the morning. As per usual, I've had wine, taken only extremely rough notes, and therefore all quotes are approximate.

The THEN catches us up nicely with the UKMoL and the fact that Mary and Billie exist - and only one of those things bode well.

NOW....

We get Mary in a diner getting the call from Cas asking her to meet him at the bunker - it's the day that Sam and Dean were taken. This is important, as a LOT of time passes in this episode. (specifically, somewhere between 6 weeks 2 days and 10 hours and 2 months).

Then we jump to the secret service dudes debriefing with the history of the Winchesters - wanted by the FBI in 2007...(you know what, I have to pull up my timeline for this)...yup, that checks out, Henricksen first tracked them down on Jan 12, 2007. Then supposedly killed in Ankeny Iowa in 2011 in a police shoot-out - and YUP, that happened in the fall of 2011 (show years) when the Leviathan impersonated them. I can't actually remember how that episode ended, but I guess it was in a shootout! (looked it up, it was Dean and Sam killing the imposters while they were in police custody... thanks SuperWiki). So, nice using your own canon, show!

Sam and Dean get put into cells that look like Supernatural might have bought the set off of a sci-fi series.

We find out that the guy being told about Sam and Dean is some big shot anti-terrorist guy. The handsome (but evil) other guy is more a man of action and wants to take Sam and Dean out back and shoot them. But the anti-terrorist guy wants to interrogate/torture them first for information.

And so he goes to visit them. Both Sam and Dean are taking the stay-silent tactic... which is good, if you're going through standard legal process. But the anti-terrorist dude decides that the way he's going to torture them is solitary confinement. So, I KNOW that's torture, like, I know human beings a social animals and blah blah blah, but I still didn't think it'd be as bad as what they went through in Hell - so I figured, *shrug* they got this. And I guess we'll argue about that later...

Meanwhile, elsewhere, Mick Davies is writing a report back to UK HQ about his strides into making friends with American hunters. Apparently, it's not going well, as he recounts his encounter with a Hunter named Wally, who listened to his spiel about a world without monsters, and countered it with a go screw yourself, mr. softhands, I don't take orders.

Back at the Bunker, Mary is super upset that her boys are locked away and she blames Cas for leaving them behind, even though Dean told him too... then she's made that they didn't call her when they needed help, and Cas rightfully points out that she "was out." Which could mean all sorts of things - out of the house or out of hunting are two of the most important ones.

Dean, meanwhile, finds a loose bolt, and so begins to tally marks on the wall. Thanks Dean!

Cas consults Crowley, who can teleport for crissakes and also has demons in law enforcement. But Crowley doesn't know where the Winchesters are and nether do his demons. He also doesn't care that they're gone, because "Do you know how many all powerful beings have tried to kill [the Winchesters]?" "Roughly, yes." Crowley, in a great line, points out that all of them failed - and that he pities whomever has tried to imprison or kill them now. I like this, because yes, it benefits Crowley that the Winchesters are gone, yes, he's been one of the ones that tried to kill them in the past - but what he's really saying is that he has every confidence in their ability to save themselves.

As time passes, it's sad times for Mary without her boys. She hears a phone ringing in the bunker, and apparently  Dean's phones have AMAZING BATTERY LIFE. Seriously, my phone only last three days if I don't use it at all. The phone call is from Alicia, one of the Canadian/American witches we met in the episode about Asa Fox... her and her brother are in Louisana and need help (so, I guess they're American? I'd think that Canadian hunters would largely stick with Canada and not go that far south, but who knows.) Mary offers to go help them.

Me and my friend were like "YES! GET THE WITCHES TO HELP YOU FIND SAM AND DEAN!" and I was like "THE VERY HOT WITCHES!" But nope. She just helps them with the hunt and that's it.

More time passes, and my friend pauses the PVR so that I can count Dean's tally marks, which are 5x8+2or3 (ie: 42-43 days).

Mary and Cas meet up in a bar somewhere. Mary forgives Cas and doesn't blame him anymore. Cas tells us, in a grand show of continuity, that Dean and Sam have been missing for "6 weeks 2 days and 10 hours" (ie: 45 days). All of Mary's law contacts are dead or retired, so she hasn't been able to find Dean and Sam. Cas, meanwhile, tried to go hunting - there was a vampire killing women - but he couldn't solve the case on his own, and he eventually "ran away" after three more women died and he still had no clue where the vampires were. Mary offers that her and Cas can hunt together, but Cas declines, completely demoralized and claiming that he'd only get in the way. :(

Then, an unknown amount of time later, we get a new scene, where the food guy comes to give Sam breakfast, only to find him dead. He tells handsome-supervisor that he tried CPR, but I doubt that, because Sam's in the exact same position he was in when the guy discovered him. They run to check on Dean and find him also deceased.

So, it's off to the autopsy room! Where handsome-supervisor tells us that the anti-terrorism guy has been giving them the silent treatment for the "last 2 months" (so, either he's rounding up, or it's been a further 1.5 weeks since the last scene with Mary and Cas.)

Back to Cas, who is now in the bunker, and Mary has called him to tell him about a "thing in Missouri" and I didn't note whether she was just going to check it out, or had wrapped it up, but either way, it still leaves Cas alone and sad, sitting in the dark in the Bunker.

Not to worry, Cas! Back in the secret government lair, Dean comes to, and so does Sam. They tackle the coronor and try to find out where they are, but he's brought in everyday blindfolded so he doesn't know. (You'd think he'd be able to tell them the state though?).

Dean takes his phone and calls Cas, while Sam figures out that they're in colorado based on a map he found in the glovebox of a truck - and also the mountain peaks. And yeah, that's pretty awesome. I'm sure the boys have driven through colorado enough to know their mountain peaks.

Then we get our foreshadowing that there's more going on than Sam and Dean knowing some sort of "kungfu trick to slow the heartbeat" - because Sam references the fact that Dean didn't tell Cas something, and that they're "on the clock." Which is why I wrote "Deal? LIfespan?" in my notes, and I turned out to be spot on, of course.

The coronor was put in one of the freezers, though it didn't appear to be on, because he looked fine when they rolled him out... also he's adorable, with his little "hey."

The anti-terrorism dudes put together their team of soldiers and big guns and run out into the woods.

Cas meets up with Mary and they discuss what they should do - Cas suggests getting Crowley and Rowena to help, but Mary is not keep on working with the King of Hell and his mother. So, Cas has another idea, which he for some reason doesn't run by Mary before inacting it, in one of my personal pet peeves about TV. "I may have another idea" "Oh? What is it?...Hello? Why have you just stopped speaking and are standing there looking ominous? Hello? What's the plan?" "Stop talking! We've faded to black! Don't you know how this works?! You don't get follow-up questions!"

Meanwhile, Sam and Dean are running through the woods, with Sam insisting that they need to "talk about this"  - which again, pretty much spells out the fact that there's a huge price for the stunt they pulled off.

Cas has called for the help of the UKMoL - specifically Mick and Mr. Ketch. They know exactly where Sam and Dean would have been kept if they're in Colorado. Though they're surprised that Sam and Dean were arrested during the course of defeating Lucifer (though at least he appears defeated?!) - which just proves the point that the UKMoL have NO IDEA what they're dealing with when it comes to American/Winchester Hunting levels. I love the fact that they have the reaction they do though, because one problem with having a Winchester POV all the time is that you can forget how monumental going after the devil is, after you've done if the second time.)

The UKMoL offer to use a satellite to track Sam and Dean down in the woods.

Back in the woods though, the people chasing Sam and Dean have caught up - even though Sam and Dean were running and their pursuers were MAYBE at a brisk walk? But, as my friend's husband pointed out, they hadn't done cardio in 2 months, so maybe Sam and Dean had to stop and take a half-hour nap somewhere.

It's great though, because then we get to see badass Sam and Dean taking down a team of trained marines (or whatever). Dean also gets to use not one but TWO awesome references, when he says "what we have here is a failure to communicate" (cool hand luke) followed immediately by "we're not trapped out here with you, you're trapped out here with us" (altered form of the awesome line from The Watchmen.) I mean, these are two guys who took out SWAT members in SEASON 2, that was 12 years ago if you go by actual years passed and not show years - they'd have only gotten better by now.

Sam and Dean find an abandoned cabin and use it to make their stand. Both my friend and I were like "don't light a lamp, what are you dumb?" but then realized that luring them in was probably the plan. Also, when Sam took out the first aid kit - I realized that they definitely had a plan of some sort. Which, turned out to be that Dean sets a bear trap and Sam hides in the cellar. Sam shoots on guy in the legs, which is a pretty dangerous game if you're trying not to kill anyone. Dean is around back and takes out two guys and takes their guns. Sam takes out another guy inside, by shooting him somewhere and then handing him the first aid kit, which is just such a SAM reason of making sure he had it handy in the first place. Then handsome-supervisor gets himself beartrapped, but anti-terrorisn guy gets a gun on Dean, but then Sam gets a gun on him, and that's it, jig is up.

Sam does tell anti-terrorism guy the truth, but I've a feeling he just heard "wow, nope, these guys are just unhinged from reality." Then they walk away and get to throw out the cool response to "who are you?" with "we're the guys who saved the world."

Then it's touching reunion time!! WE GET SASSY HUG RIGHT OFF THE BAT! Like, no hesitation at all, Sam sees Cas and is just like HUG TIMEZ NAO! Dean follows it up though, while Sam hugs the heck out of his mum, then Dean also gets mum hugs.

Cas and Mary admit to letting the UKMoL help them with their "borrowed satellite."  But then they find out that Sam and Dean left survivors, Mr. Ketch calls it "unprofessional" even though Dean argues that they're good soldiers just doing their jobs (which they are!)

We get in the car, and Dean and Sam find out that Mary's been hunting. Then the car dies, and both Sam and Dean take a long look at their mum and Cas, in a way where you KNOW that (at least Dean) is thinking he's looking at them for the last time... and one of them says "it's time."

And we find out that indeed, the deal was with Billie. She'd kill them and bring them back one last time, but it meant that at midnight one Winchester would die permanently.

Mary questions how Dean could possibly suggest such a deal. Dean tells her that solitary was worse than hell.... which I find hard to believe, but then, both Sam and Dean were tortured by torturers who delighted in the hands-on-approach, so, perhaps it really was the first time they'd faced the torture of solitary confinement... I STILL think that they should have been able to weather it, but perhaps I'm thinking about it backwards - where because you've been tortured before, you'd be able to resist it more... but in reality, it might be more that because you've been tortured before, you have extreme PTSD and really don't do so well with torture or confinement at all, even worse than before you were tortured. I mean, that's probably more realistic and less "action movie hero stereotype."

(Sidenote: Did you now that Canada has a HORRIBLE track record of using solitary confinement to the point of torture? The rule is that you're not supposed to leave someone in solitary for more than 15 days, but last year it was discovered that there was a prisoner in Ontario who had been in solitary for 4 years!! Just... you know, so you're aware that Canada isn't the lovely perfect place that Canadians like to pretend it is - we may be better than a lot of places (and looking better every day) but we have massive problems too. One of which is massive racism against First Nations... like, I sure wasn't surprised when I learned that the guy who had been in solitary for 4 years was First Nations.)

Anyway, Dean decided that he was already dead in solitary, so he might as well just be dead but have Sam free (or be free and have Sam dead?) I'm sure both of them thought that they'd sacrifice themselves for their brother. Instead, of course, it's Mary who offers, since she was dead once already and is/was having a hard time adjusting. So, she lifts a gun to her temple... I'm not sure why she's gotta shoot herself in the head infront of her sons though, can't Billie just touch her or something and have her go gently into that good night?

The shooting in the head doesn't come to pass though, since Cas kills Billie. Instead... and here's where I go on my rant about how you SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO KILL REAPERS!!! RAR! Buuuuuuuuuuuuuut, I justified the last few reapers they killed with angel blades by the fact that they were "rogue reapers" and I decided that "rogue reapers" because they were "rogue" had lost the protection of Death, and therefore were mortal... now, since Death is either away/dead/weak (personally, I think at most he's weak, since YOU CAN'T KILL DEATH!), I'm assuming that all reapers have lost his protection, since he's effectively out of commission.

Of course, Billie had warned that cosmic things go wrong when you break a blood deal - so I think that's why Dean and Sam are both like "Cas! What the hell!" But Cas is all like, "THE WORLD NEEDS YOU AND YOU MEAN TOO MUCH TO ME!!!!" Which is basically just Cas speak for "I LOVE YOU GUYS, YOU COMPLETE IDIOTS!!!" Awww, so sweet. <3

Then we cut back to Mick, who is giving a report on what went down... and indeed, Mr. Ketch went in and killed the entire Colorado complex, including the adorable Coronor, which makes me super sad... because he was the CUTEST, YOU GUYS! So sad... then he says that on the plus side, he's finally gotten a Hunter to express interest in what he's offering...and we find out that that hunter is... MARY.

So, all in all, a pretty good episode! I was super like, not enthused beforehand... mainly because I've been a little unenthused about all media in general lately... but I was pleasently surprised. We got smart badass Winchesters, Dean had cool hair, adorable side-characters, and a lot of love between the characters. And yeah, I'm sad that Billie is dead, because I loved her - Lisa Berry was SO GOOD in that roll... but, well, whatever.

Also, my friend who hates law-enforcement storylines is happy, because although we're unhappy with his methods, Mr. Ketch has ensured that we're not going to have law enforcement on the Winchester's tail for the rest of the season.

It'll be interesting to see where it goes... I figure the shits gonna hit the fan eventually with the fact that Mr. Ketch is undoing all their merciful acts... and also the fact that the UKMoL may have tons of gadgets but they are SO out of their depth when it comes to the scope of what the Winchesters have to deal with on a day to day basis.


Anyway, tell me what you thought in comments!! Also, forgive spelling mistakes, I do not have a spellchecker.

Comments

( 26 comments — Leave a comment )
elvit
Jan. 27th, 2017 12:14 pm (UTC)
> and here's where I go on my rant about how you SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO KILL REAPERS!!! RAR! Buuuuuuuuuuuuuut, I justified the last few reapers they killed with angel blades

- Yes! Yes! And remember the reaper killed by Crowly? Also GRRRRRR!

> And yeah, I'm sad that Billie is dead, because I loved her - Lisa Berry was SO GOOD in that roll... but, well, whatever.

- Same here...

Counting all those days in jail I wonder when Kelly Kline who is pregnant with a nephilim is due...
hells_half_acre
Jan. 27th, 2017 09:15 pm (UTC)
Well, she'd be due in 7 months, by the end of the episode! :)
elvit
Jan. 27th, 2017 09:19 pm (UTC)
Thanks! :)
sw0rdy
Jan. 27th, 2017 12:18 pm (UTC)
I lol'ed at your battery life comment because that was my thought exactly when they'd already shown so much time passing!
hells_half_acre
Jan. 27th, 2017 09:15 pm (UTC)
I mean, really, what they should have done was have her find the phone still plugged in. It'd be a simple fix!
supernutjapan
Jan. 27th, 2017 12:54 pm (UTC)
So, Cas has another idea, which he for some reason doesn't run by Mary before inacting it, in one of my personal pet peeves about TV. "I may have another idea" "Oh? What is it?...Hello? Why have you just stopped speaking and are standing there looking ominous? Hello? What's the plan?" "Stop talking! We've faded to black! Don't you know how this works?! You don't get follow-up questions!"

AHAHAHA!!!! so funny! So true!!

maybe Sam and Dean had to stop and take a half-hour nap somewhere.
*ROFL*

I was also surprised that Dean/Sam couldn't take the dark cells as opposed to torture. That actually means they had no hope that anyone would help them, doesn't it? They weren't thinking we just have to hang in there until Cas finds us. Which is really sad.

Loved the badassery and the ep in general. Loved Cas's speech at the end.
hells_half_acre
Jan. 27th, 2017 09:17 pm (UTC)
Yup, it's pretty sad.

I also forgot to mention in the write-up, but it occurs to me that they're also facing an indefinite/infinite time SEPARATED... I know that one of the brother's planned to kick-the-bucket by the end of the episode, but still, Sam and Dean never do well when apart, and I guess with nothing to distract them, it was sad times.
supernutjapan
Jan. 29th, 2017 02:48 pm (UTC)
Someone said that they'd love to have some fic on the psychology of it, and I realized that that is what was missing from understanding how awful it was for them... if we had had some voices in their heads, some anguish, it may have been easier to understand.

Someone needs to write something :P
batgurl10
Feb. 21st, 2017 06:34 pm (UTC)
Ive been waiting for the fic too. so far there hasn't been much that I could find-if you know of any??

I think Jared gave us some really lovely nuggets of insight to his mental state with all the facial scrunches (depression)-the food rejection etc :( personally I think both boys would suffer from this type of isolation maybe Sam more so
borgmama1of5
Jan. 27th, 2017 01:17 pm (UTC)
I LOVED badass Dean and Sam taking out the agents--deadly efficient and yet they didn't kill anyone--how awesome! Which made me really upset with the BMoL killing everyone!!! (And how is that covering it up? Won't there be an investigation about a bunch of murders in a secret government building???)

But what I am really dying to know is what pact Dean made with Billie and did Sam agree to that pact or did Sam make his own deal with Billie? Because an agreement that leaves only one of them alive after midnight??? I can see Dean doing that for Sam--but no way Sam would agree to it! And if Billie could get both of them, why would she only take one in the first place???

And then there's this little continuity issue from the Asa Fox episode when Billie offers to reap Mary:

Billie: The look in your eyes, I've seen it before. It's a dead man's look...I'm not here to hurt you. I'm here to offer you mercy. A one-way ticket upstairs, away from all of this.
Mary: How would it work?...You just kill me again?
Billie: Reapers don't kill people. Rules.
Mary: Well... then... Then I guess you're just gonna have to wait.


So what exactly did she do to them in the cell? A temporary whammy?

Also--I could totally see both of the boys having a very hard time with indefinite solitary--the indefinite part being the problem, and nothing to do but think...and Winchesters have way too many depressing thoughts to keep revisiting...
hells_half_acre
Jan. 27th, 2017 09:21 pm (UTC)
Yeah, there will be an investigation into the killings - but if there is no evidence of the boys being there, and they've killed everyone who knows... well, then what is any investigation going to find? Nothing.

I think both brother's understood the pact as it stood - "one of you will die" - and probably both brothers decided that when the time came, they'd negotiate for themselves to die and their brother to be spared.

And I'm sure she was only taking one of them, because Dean refused to let her take both - and she was happy enough to get at least one.

And...loophole with Billie "killing" them... they didn't stay dead, so technically she didn't kill them at all. So, yeah, temporary whammy. She may have done something similar to a "spirit walk" or whatever Pamela did in S4...only given them control of when they returned to their bodies (so they could do it when the coast was clear.)

claudiapriscus
Jan. 27th, 2017 09:11 pm (UTC)
I love checking in with SPN through your write ups. It both satisfies my curiosity and sometimes reminds me of the show's dedication to things that happen to be pet peeves of mine so it's probably good that I've not fallen off the SPN wagon.

(Though okay, I just have to say: Cosmic things go wrong from avoiding death, huh? Like....what that the show hasn't already done?)

I think Canada still somewhat has the moral high ground on solitary confinement. Apparently there are prisoners in the US who have been in solitary confinement since the 70s.

hells_half_acre
Jan. 27th, 2017 09:25 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I think it'd just infuriate you at this point.

(And yeah, I think they're going to gloss over that line - that it was just said as a 'you can't break the deal!' warning... because, I mean, Dean "killed" Death and there were no consequences! I'm sure they're fine.)

I think Canada still somewhat has the moral high ground on solitary confinement. Apparently there are prisoners in the US who have been in solitary confinement since the 70s.

Uh, yikes. Okay, geez... Canada is still way better than you guys on all fronts then. Doesn't mean there's not room for improvement, but yeah...glad we're not infringing on human rights to THAT degree.
claudiapriscus
Jan. 28th, 2017 01:07 am (UTC)
I've kind of come up with a theory on Canada's general moral high ground relative to the US, and that the difference is probably the south's fault.

I say tongue in cheek, but only sort of. There were actually a huge number of progressive strides that were made in the 19th century (that we take for granted now, or that created the precedent for better things later) that only happened because at the time, the South had seceded. And as soon as they were restored to the Union, that all stopped dead (or was rolled back, or took decades to happen).
hells_half_acre
Jan. 28th, 2017 02:10 am (UTC)
It's really a shame. I don't really understand why the South is the way it is...is it just the religious influence or just...ingrained in the culture no matter what... you'd think people would be able to reason and empathize, and yet...

I'm Canadian, of course, so I really shouldn't be speaking to US problems, because it's hardly like I know all the nuances. But part of me really that maybe states SHOULD secede. It'd be a horror show for the South, but at least the rest of the country might have a fighting chance. But then, that might be the sort of mentality that leads to no good...I mean, is it unconscionable to leave a bunch of states to sink into misery just so they don't bring the others down?

It all comes back to the problem of how my family should deal with my alcoholic/alcohol-dementia-inflicted uncle. My mother sinks more money into trying to keep him from becoming homeless or institutionalized and retain at least a semblance of independence. Meanwhile, I wonder if we should just let him become homeless or (perferable) institutionalized... and then I feel like a horrible person... and I probably am, let's be honest.

And I just compared half your country to an alcoholic who has literally broken their brain... so, uh, yeah, there's that. I'm definitely Canadian, sitting here on my high northern horse.
claudiapriscus
Jan. 28th, 2017 02:35 am (UTC)
I mean, I'm not disputing it, right? There's a sickness in the South, and a lot of it is tied to slavery and the plantation system. But it's hard to say "we should have just cut them loose" because a) 4 million enslaved people and b) if they'd be cut loose then states would have been seceding every single time they didn't get their way. and c) your country is like a family. You can't just let even the self-destructive bits blow up. And no state is a monolith, they'd take a lot of people down with them.

(also: my mother faced that same dilemma. My uncle was a schizophrenic heroin addict on the streets of SF).

Edited at 2017-01-28 02:36 am (UTC)
hells_half_acre
Jan. 28th, 2017 03:21 am (UTC)
Yeah, yeah, that's the problem. Because, even if we forget the idea of cutting them loose in the past, what would happen if you cut them loose now? There's still thousands upon thousands of people who live down there who would be discriminated against, shot, imprisoned, have their human rights violated... and you could hardly sit back and be like "well, at least we're cool!"

I mean, in a little way, that's sort of how it feels to be Canadian right now. Like...it's hard to be next door and say "well, screw you guys"... not to mention our economy is tied with yours (as is the world's) and people often have friends/family on both sides of the border (I do!).

Blah, unsolvable problems. Or... problems that are only solvable if you can somehow cease to care about half of the US population, and also severe all economic ties with half of the US. So, yeah, unsolvable, besides just continuing to work to drag people kicking and screaming into the 21st century.
claudiapriscus
Jan. 28th, 2017 09:30 am (UTC)
Luckily, technically, I think it's less than half, but unfortunately, whatever percentage it actually it is, it's a percentage that shows up to vote in greater proportion than the majority. Sigh.

I get what you're saying though. I've often kind of thought that the relationship between Canada and the US is...not "almost like just more states" in a diminutive sense, or as if to erase the different identities, but in the sense that we're tied together by more than just proximity -with the economic, social, cultural, historical ties that exist, it'd be impossible to pretend we're not all in the same boat. It's like fraternal twins. Not only related, but sharing more than simple siblings (while not being identical.) Which I think is one of the interesting things about the "Canada as the nicer version of the US" narrative -I mean, it's silly, but it's implicitly premised on the idea that the two countries are on the same wavelength, and facing the same issues, but that maybe Canada is making better life choices. (hah! Which would make "I'm moving to canada" the national version of "why can't you be more like your sister/brother?!") In other words, both countries fuck up or succeed in similar ways, but to different degrees. I mean, like I can make comparisons between problems or strengths between the US and the UK, and there are similarities, but rarely are the parallels as clear.

hells_half_acre
Jan. 28th, 2017 09:13 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head there. Both our countries were kind of "born" the same way - only, when you guys "left home", you did it in bloody revolt and refused to let our parent be in your life anymore, and we did it bit by bit until we just didn't have much left at our parent's house, but we still visit from time to time. :P

Also, we married a French person? Hahaha

But yeah, that "basically another state" makes me feel better when it's in the context of "great economic ties" and less about "I see no difference between the two countries" because the latter option gets a "HOW DARE YOU!" from me. (Even though we often DID make the some of the same mistakes as America... like interning the Japanese in WWII or our horrible treatment of the First Nations, which I believe both countries had similar policies towards.)
raloria
Jan. 28th, 2017 06:03 am (UTC)
Back in the woods though, the people chasing Sam and Dean have caught up - even though Sam and Dean were running and their pursuers were MAYBE at a brisk walk? But, as my friend's husband pointed out, they hadn't done cardio in 2 months, so maybe Sam and Dean had to stop and take a half-hour nap somewhere.

It also seemed like they were only feeding the boys once a day and not a lot at that. After nearly 2 months of that it'd probably be a little difficult to flat out run through the woods.

I think Dean was the one who decided to sacrifice himself in the deal because why else would Sam want to talk about it while they were in the woods? He probably wanted to try and talk Dean out of it. Just my theory.

I've also pondered about Dean's statement that being in that cell was worse than hell and I think a lot of that was because he was keeping track of the days. I think the days would've blended together easier if he hadn't been counting them. However, in hell he had no sense of time, except when he got back topside and learned the date. Plus there's the whole torturing thing....it's not like he was alone in hell. This time he and Sam were utterly alone and separated from one another. So I can see how that could be worse than hell itself. That's a lot of time to just think and ponder (probably about hell and who knows what else?).

I do call foul on them giving Dean an electric razor to shave. I mean, really??? :P

Btw, the line by Sam was "We're the guys that save the world." I double checked it and Super Wiki has it as that as well. Alas, I'm seeing it all over social media as "We're the guys who saved the world. " *sigh* This is gonna be the "Mystery Spot" piano issue all over again, I can tell. :( /rant

hells_half_acre
Jan. 28th, 2017 06:19 am (UTC)
Another "to the end of the line" versus "til the end of the line" - that's the quote scandal in the Captain America fandom. :P

I think they were feeding them more than once a day! I mean, we have no proof that they weren't to my knowledge, because it was all just montage of time passing - so who the heck knows how many times the guy came by with the food tray, just that it happened a lot and it was part of the monotony of their confinement.

But yeah, also, in arguing about timing with someone friends, we figured out that Sam and Dean were running through the woods for AT LEAST 13 hours... and yeah, even fit people with enough calories would have trouble keeping up a running pace that whole time.

My opinion is that they didn't even discuss who was going to be the one that died. Though, I'm sure Dean assumed and planned for it to be him - but I think he'd also know that the only way Sam would agree to it is if Sam thought he had a chance of convincing Dean to live and let Sam die.

I didn't even think about the shaving thing! But you're right!
raloria
Jan. 28th, 2017 08:05 am (UTC)
Yeah, but we never saw any breakfast food on the trays, only supper-like meals. So i'm pretty sure one tray of food a day is all they got. And they showed 3 different meals.

Wow. 13 hours? Yeah ,that would be tough to maintain. But I don't think they ever showed the guys flat out running, just jogging. But of course, they did have a head start.

Yes, 'cause Dean would totally do that. ;) And why else would Sam want to talk about it if Dean didn't already agree to die? 'Cause if it was reversed, Dean would be the one who would want to talk his brother out of it. Or maybe you're right and Sam just wanted to discuss it and make a decision and Dean was waiting to spring it on him at midnight? Hard to say.
hells_half_acre
Jan. 28th, 2017 08:12 am (UTC)
I'll have to wait until my rewatch. I was pretty sure there were different looking meals... but maybe not! Like I said, I've only ever watched once while drinking, so I could have hallucinated everything.

And by running, I meant jogging (I have bad knees, anything faster than a walk is "running" to me, because I cannot do it.) The army guys were walking, that's what I mean about the different pace - walking briskly or not, isn't as fast as a jogging.

Yup, we may never know... but I'm going with Dean was waiting to spring it on him at midnight. Because that's a pretty Dean thing to do. ;)
raloria
Jan. 28th, 2017 08:19 am (UTC)
There were 3 different meals.
From my review notes - 'cause I paused the video every time a tray showed up on-screen:

That's not a lot of food. At least there's apple juice. *g*
Heh. Dean's all...."Hmmm, not bad." and Sam turns his nose up at it. Nice little call back to their other prison ep (Folsom Prison Blues) where Dean liked the food and Sam didn't. ;)
Mmmmm....bologna, cheese, bread, and 6 potato chips...and apple juice.
Ah, so he's marking the days based on the meals each day. Wait....they only get one a day??? That sucks!
WTH is this??? I can't even identify it. And an apple along w/apple juice? Redundant much?


The first was beef w/gravy, mashed potatoes, corn, and apple juice.
2nd was the bologna, cheese, bread, and potato chips w/apple juice.
3rd was the one I couldn't identify...one thing looked like rice, but not really, then there was another crumbly-type food, the apple, and the juice. I don't know....maybe that one was breakfast? Scrambled eggs??? But they didn't look like scrambled eggs.

Heh, I'm w/you on the bad knees. I haven't been able to actually "run" in many years. *iz old*

Totally a Dean thing to do. ;)
hells_half_acre
Jan. 28th, 2017 09:14 pm (UTC)
So, yeah, I think those three meals are breakfast lunch and dinner, and Dean was just counting either the breakfasts or the dinners, whichever he was served on that first day before finding the bolt.

But that's interpretation, so who knows.

Also, now I'm hungry, I haven't had breakfast yet. :P
jedinic
Jan. 29th, 2017 09:07 am (UTC)
I really love these posts. Thank you!
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