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Quick Reaction: 12x08 LOTUS

Hello!

Alright, let's just get down to it. You all know the rules by now...

THEN - gives us UKMoL, Ketch, Rowena, Lucifer, and C&C Music Factory... uh, I mean "the fact that Cas and Crowely are working together"

The NOW gives us....

Priests! Young attractive priest, listening to the news - the archbishop comes by and tells him to cut it out! It's not just priests, it's POSSESSED priests! Or, Possessed Archbishop anyway, and he is possessed by Lucifer.

Man the scene with him walking down the hall and all the crosses turning was really rad. That's like, old school SPN, and I enjoyed it immensely.

Sam and Dean go to a morgue. Where is this city? I did not write it down. Is it St. Louis? I will look it up on SuperWiki later. Shoot, I just tried to look it up now and apparently they were in Indianapolis at some point?!?! Was that HERE?! Someone please tell me. I need to know for timelining purposes. Was it when they were trying to track down LOTUS later?! Man, my note-taking tonight sucked.

Anyway, Sam and Dean are at a morgue and so are Cas and Crowley! A "CEO of Everything" is dead. He already looks like the archbishop dude, because he is a dead white-haired white guy with no eyes. Crowley tells them that Lucifer is obviously honning in on temporary vessels that have institutionalized fame and power. Cas agrees "with Agent Zappa" and Dean tells him to "stop it!" Haha, awww... I love that Cas and Crowley are basically parodying Sam and Dean, but also kind of in an annoying way. It's great.

Back to the Bunker from wherever the heck they were!

Sam quickly tracks down the fact that Lucifer most likely jumped into te Archbishop - or at least he's a person of interest. So, time to go to St. Louis (at least I wrote that down) and see what's what.

They go to Cecil Green house at UBC. Uh... I mean they go to the monestary. Listen, they've used this house a LOT in Supernatural (and other shows), but there was something about the way they filmed this time where I REALLY noticed the architecture. Like... this is a REALLY NICE example of early 20th century architecture. I was sure it was 1930s, but apparently it was originally built in 1912. I'm wondering if it might have been renovated when it's second owner bought it in 1939 though, because the style of moldings and the wood paneled walls remind me SO MUCH of my family's cottage, which was built in 1939. Anyway, I was super distracted by architecture, as you can tell... which is really saying something, because Lucifer turned that place into a horrible murder scene and that's what we're ACTUALLY supposed to be looking at - not the wainscotting.

The dying young priest (as opposed the many dead young priests - "Why are there so many hot young priests?" my friend asks, to which I reply with innuendo that I can no longer remember.) tells Sam and Dean that he noticed the archibishop was turning all the crosses and figured he was possessed, as you do, so they tried an exorcism, and that obviously went splendidly. Then I guess he dies. I can't remember, but he didn't seem long for the world, so I wouldn't be surprised. I wrote "dead" in my notes, but I'm pretty sure I was refurring to the body of the archbishop at that point.

So, Sam and Dean are too late anyway... Lucifer has moved on...

And he's moved onto a guy living in a house with modern architecture. Very west-coast modern, I'd say, but I'm biased because I live out here- might be that it's a style spread to the rest of the country too. But it's very return-of-the-mid-century-modern. I don't actually know if there's a name for the style... anyway, it's um, Wells' house on The Flash, for those who watch multiple Vancouver-based shows.

Jeff agrees to house Lucifer (always a mistake) and he and Jeff have a comfy conversation in chairs inside Jeff's mind. The problem with this is that much like Sam's mirror conversations in S5, Lucifer is also speaking aloud in the room. A security guy walks in to see what's up and gets himself killed... right before that happens though, we find out that Jeff is the President of the US. Well crap.

When we come back from commercial, they're carting dead-guy away, and Lucifer is giving the story of how the dude just died... then one of Jeff's aids hands him a bible and asks him to say a few words, like he does every night, while everyone takes a knee and bows their heads in prayer.

And listen... um... am I the only one that finds that terrifying even without it being Lucifer? Like.... uh, Separation of church and state people! I know America has this big thing about God and their presidents being Protestant, but that level of... treating the President like he's some sort of quasi-religious leader? SUPER CREEPY AND WRONG. I'm so glad I don't live in your country. Sorry. I just am. I'll take my looks-good-in-pictures-but-makes-empty-promises-vaguely-agnostic-dude over that any day.

 Anyway, it's actually quite hilarious - Lucifer having to "pray" He kind of fakes his way through it while the bible burns his hand. Again - I love that detail.

Sam and Cas, meanwhile, are at the Bunker. Sam is showing Cas the photos of the massacre at the monastary, and Cas agrees that the level of violence is unnecessary. I kind of love that they had this scene be between Sam and Cas - both characters who have the most in common when it comes to Lucifer.

Back with Lucifer - it's not the next morning and he's in a briefing. There's trouble in Belarus, he suggests nuking them - there's an awkward silence - both me and my friend are like "Oh god! It's Trump!" "TOO PRESCIENT! TOO PRESCIENT!" (by which I meant, "too soon" but since i knew they would have had to film this before the election, it was actually too prescient.) "Jeff" says he's joking and everybody laughs and they agree to talk about it later.

Then it's off to walk down a hallway. Jeff's aid catches up with Lucifer and they send the security guard "Otto" away. Otto is a really adorable name, so I declared him my new favourite person at that point and hoped he didn't die.

But he didn't! The aid just wanted to have sexy times with the "Jeff". We find out that Jeff is a widower who was married to a woman named Louise before. Widowers are really Lucifer's MO, so this isn't a huge surprise. I wonder why the heck that is, anyway. Apparently, if your girlfriend/wife is fridged, you have a higher chance of Lucifer possession.

So, I kinda like the fact that they made a fictional president for Supernatural. I mean, I know it muddies the waters, because Dean HAS mentioned Obama before... but Supernatural TECHNICALLY is two years ahead of us now, so maybe part of me just thinks it's cool to imagine a world where President-Elect Rapist isn't sworn in and instead some bloke named Jefferson Rooney takes the job. I'd prefer him, even if he were a discomfortingly religious dude... I mean, even with saying yes to Lucifer, he seemed like a better dude than Mr. Rapist.

Crowley, meanwhile, is meeting with the woman who investigated the secrutity guard's murder. She's apparently someone who sold her soul and is attempting to earn it back by giving Crowley information. She tells him how suspicious as hell it all is.

Back at the Bunker, Dean walks into the room and Cas immediately complains/asks if the wards on the Bunker have failed. Dean says he powered them down because Crowley might have something. Sam takes offense that they're inviting Crowley over.

I love this detail because finally the Bunker actually DOES IT'S JOB (or would, if Dean didn't power down the wards) - but it's really the first time that we see that not only does the Bunker INDEED have wards, but that the Winchesters can control the level of warding - which helps to explain why Cas and Gadreel can get in and out, but that Crowley - at least previously - could only get in when summoned... also, helps to explain why Rowena never came back and stole things. Anyway, it's still kind of vague and annoying, but at least they're staring to pay attention to the fact that it SHOULD have rules.

Anywho, Crowley shows up. Sam complains/asks why they can't just get the information without the drama. Crowley counters with "why can't I just get you without the flannel?" or words to that effect, and it's hilarious.

He drops the bombshell that the Lucifer is the President and everyone agrees this is very bad news.

Lucifer, meanwhile, tells the secret service dudes that he has "urgent and confidential" info - that mentally unstable men plan to assassinate him because they think he's possessed by the literal devil. The secret service guy is like "the devil isn't real, he's a comicbook villain!" and Lucifer is like "wow, offensive, but I need to keep you alive so that you'll kill the Winchesters for me, so you get a pass this time" only just with his face.

Sam, meanwhile, fearing for the gravity of the situation, debates calling Mitch Davies, the Irish UKMoL bloke who gave them his number. He dials, but then chickens out and hangs up - mainly because he hasn't discussed it with Dean, I'm sure.

Then Sam rejoins the group and they try to plan how to get close enough to the President to exorcise and then re-trap Lucifer in the cage.

This brings in....

Rowena! Who's boyfriend is in the process of leaving her in Florida for another woman. Mainly, because he had Rowena's backstory investigated and none of it checked out... also, they were basically two people trying to scam each other with marriage for money.

Crowley shows up and explodes him. Rowena says that's the sweetest thing Crowley has ever done for her. It's a lovely Mother-Son moment.

Lucifer, meanwhile, is having sexy times with his aid again. She says that it felt different that time in a good way. Lucifer smiles.

Cas, meanwhile, is geting coffee and has an episode of some sort, dropping the coffee cups...awww. There's been a surge of celestial power - and an announcement that a Nephilim has been conceived.... and bascially it's news that Lucifer has knocked up a human. Dean has the great parting line of "I didn't even know he was dating." and i laugh.

Sam and Dean go to investigate... something. Is this when they're driving? I have these words written down:
-Investigate
-Crowley
-Impeach LOTUS
-Rosemary's Baby

So, I think that sums up their conversation in the car with Cas. The point is, Sam and Dean and Cas are driving somewhere close to where the president is, and they get pulled over by the cops - which are actually the secret service, and then it's all guns at high noon and such. They do a pretty good job of defending themselves, but they're still held at gun point when a black car pulls up playing smooth jazz.. the person gets out of the car with a grenade launcher, saving Sam and Dean.

He then commands Castiel with "you, Angel, wipe their memories" and that's how we meet Arthur Ketch.

He tells them he came in reponse to Sam's hang-up call, which Mitch figured meant Sam was in trouble. He tells them "you're welcome" When the Winchesters doubt the truthfulness of his story. He calls Castiel "Halo" and asks him if he thinks he's lying. to which Castiel gets offended and corrects him that his name is "Castiel" and then says that he's not lying, but the truth can be situational. Which I also love, because it gives the game away on how both Cas can lie and also how people can lie to Cas - or have managed to lie to Cas in the past.

Ketch also apologies for "Lady Bevil" and says she can get "excitable" and he reiterates that they just want to collaborate. Ketch claims he's not an ideollogue like the Lady Bevil. I'm not sure that's accurate, given his behaviour - so I'm with Cas here - the truth is situational and Ketch is using that to his advantage.

Dean confirms that Ketch used a grenade launcher and then looks at Sam like "and you've never let me use ours." It's great.

Also, I forgot to say, but the grenade launcher scene was AWESOME. I loved Sam and Dean taking cover and Cas just standing there watching it all happen, not even flinching. So great.

Ketch tells them that they have all sorts of cool weapons - such as something that eradiates vampires so that their own blood becomes poisonous to them. And a weird egg grenade thing that knocks the possessing out of their vessels. Sam asks if it works on angels... and we see the plan starting to form.

It's agreed that first they need Kelly (who is the sexy aid) - which means that they need to send in Crowley. Crowley is less than impressed with this plan, but does what he must.

Now, here's where I can't stretch my disbelief. Kelly already knows she's pregnant. Look - unless 4 weeks have gone by between the sex scene and now, that's impossible. Furthermore, while the sperm might have met the egg, the egg doesn't even attatch to the uterine wall in the first 72 hours, so it's still technically not a pregnancy - like, there'd be absolutely no way to test it, nor would the woman have any notion that one of her eggs was fertilized.

This is where my friend suggested that maybe I should work under the believe that Nephilim develop at a faster rate than humans - and the pregnancies happen in a similar fashion ot the Amazon pregnancies back in S7 or whenever the heck that was - so, fine. That's what I'll do, and I'll have to do it again later when the situation gets even more ridiculous.

Anyway...

They break it to Kelly that she was knocked up by Satan. And that she's in a room with two hunters, an angel, and the King of Hell. Her response is to say "Oh god" and Cas helpfully replies "Actually, he left."  I laughed. That's the kind of Cas that I love.

Lucifer meanwhile, is possibly planning to pardon Charles Manson? Listen, I'm still on the fence as to whether Lucifer is still a better president than President=Elect Racist Rapist.

Kelly calls him and asks him to come meet her someplace. Which he does - the security team go in ahead to give it a sweep. Sam and Dean are hiding in the ajoining room with their hands on the nobs so that they appear locked. I laugh, because I used to do that to my little sister when I wanted her to believe that she was locked in a room (that sounds super cruel when I don't put any context around it). Cas, meanwhile, is just hiding in the closet and uses a mind-wipe and a jedi-mind trick to tell the security guy that there's nobody in the room but Kelly and to go wait in the car.

Lucifer comes in and Kelly tells him that she can't have the baby. He starts strangling her and that's when the Winchesters spring out of the room.

So, here's a confusing thing - my friend and I realized that the de-possession bomb was possibly a danger to Cas - who is also occupying a vessel. So, we thought Sam putting his hand on the sigil thing was about banishing CAS - but then, Lucifer would be banished too, wouldn't he? And Cas still leaps into the room after Sam sets off the device... so... what was the sigil? Warding to keep Lucifer from leaving the room? Why didn't the device effect Castiel? Is it SO Localized that it only affects a certain radius?! And Cas just made sure to stay outside of it?

Once Lucifer starts smoking out, Rowena can cast her spell to send him back into the cage. Which she does.

As soon as it seems to have worked, Crowley and Rowena vanish.

Cas takes Kelly out the other room, but for some reason Sam and Dean stay in the room? WHY?! This annoys me because there's no reason to stay there and all it gets them is arrested when the security team come in and find them with an unconscious President.

Cas and Kelly leave and Cas takes her to a diner, where she sneaks out the back and calls a cab - then phones Cas and tells him that she can't do it (ie: get an abortion) because she can "feel it inside her" and it's her baby. AGAIN, unless Nephilim have a hella short implantation and gestation period, there is no possible way she can feel anything yet, nor has she even had any hormone changed. BUT WHATEVER - we'll just assume that Nephilim have some crazy super-powers and that they actually DO spring into being much faster than human babies.

Our cliffhanger is that Sam and Dean are now arrested by the secret service for a possible attempted assasination of the President. And that Lucifer's baby is out there being gestated rapidly... though, mind you, that might not be so bad - the last Nephilim we met was a waitress who didn't seem to be causing any trouble. Nurture over nature and all that jazz.

So, me and my friend had mixed feelings about the finale. Just like I dislike "politics" (ie: UKMoL storyline) my friend hates it when regular law enforcement is brought into the plot - mainly because not only does she not enjoy it, but SPN has already done it several times to really unbelievable-results... like, how many times have Sam and Dean been America's most wanted, yet they can still walk into police stations all over the country as FBI agents? How many times are they going to fake their deaths? Etc.

I liked that they seemingly wrapped up the Lucifer storyline and sent him back into the cage - though, I'd like confirmation on that. Also, I think it should have been a slightly bigger deal than they made it, given what they had to sacrifice to do it the first time around. We could have gotten way more of a meaningful build-up if they had stretched that out to a more strategic/research heavy solution rather than "oh hey, this dude that's been following us happens to have a solution in his trunk. Cool."

Now, that all being said, while I don't know what they're going to do when they come back in January - right now I'm chuckling at the idea of Castiel having to rescue them from prison. (Though, I think Crowley could just pop in and teleport them out, and Castiel could erase people's memories again)... but, who's to say Crowley will agree to that without getting something out of it. Also, now that Lucifer isn't a danger, we don't know the status of Crowley's allyship.

Anyway, we'll see how it goes!

And now we get a long break before we return in January with 15 episodes still to go in this season! (that seems like an insane amount of episodes.)

Hopefully I can get through some more rewatches during the break. :)


As usual, let me know what you thought in comments.

Comments

( 19 comments — Leave a comment )
liliaeth
Dec. 9th, 2016 10:53 am (UTC)
I have more to say about this ep later, but for me the most important part is well...all the awesome fanfic we should be getting from the end of this episode.

Unlike your friend, I've always loved the law enforcement storylines on spn, even though I do agree that they should be getting more trouble over it, than they've had since s4.

But I really really want to see all the fic we can get out of the Winchesters in prison, and the Winchesters on the run from the cops and..
I know I'll probably get disappointed by canon in this regard, but damn it, I want all the fic that will actually dare to go where the show will back away from what the consequences of this should be.
hells_half_acre
Dec. 10th, 2016 02:24 am (UTC)
Yup, everyone is different - and I know a lot of people are jazzed about the reintroduction of law enforcement. I'm largely indifferent to it, because a lot of it depends on execution for me. :)

The fic is always the most fun part, that's for sure! I'm sure people will have a really good time with the possibilities!
raloria
Dec. 9th, 2016 12:28 pm (UTC)
So, I kinda like the fact that they made a fictional president for Supernatural. I mean, I know it muddies the waters, because Dean HAS mentioned Obama before... but Supernatural TECHNICALLY is two years ahead of us now, so maybe part of me just thinks it's cool to imagine a world where President-Elect Rapist isn't sworn in and instead some bloke named Jefferson Rooney takes the job. I'd prefer him, even if he were a discomfortingly religious dude... I mean, even with saying yes to Lucifer, he seemed like a better dude than Mr. Rapist.

Ok, I've been having problems with this as well, but if they are actually 2 years ahead that gives them some leeway. I just wish they hadn't had Dean reference Obama in the past - would've made things much easier.

Btw, I'm pretty sure Cas wasn't effected by the egg device because his host isn't alive anymore. Cas told Claire that her dad was gone a long time ago - I think when Cas was blasted by Lucifer in Swan Song. So he's an empty shell. Just Cas in there. As for the sigil....yeah, I don't know what the point of that was since it didn't send Lucifer away. Weird.
liliaeth
Dec. 9th, 2016 01:05 pm (UTC)
I figure the sigil was a safety precaution, in case the BMOL doohickey didn't work.

As for the president thing, I like to use the headcanon, that the Leviathans ate and replaced Trump back in s7, which is why he isn't currently the president in the spn verse*eg*



Edited at 2016-12-09 01:08 pm (UTC)
borgmama1of5
Dec. 9th, 2016 01:14 pm (UTC)
I love your headcannon and wish it was real!!!
hells_half_acre
Dec. 10th, 2016 02:27 am (UTC)
Yes! I love your explanation as to why there's no sign of the current RL president-elect! I'm definitely going to adopt that as a headcanon. :)
hells_half_acre
Dec. 10th, 2016 02:26 am (UTC)
Yeah, so... I guess it only works on hosts that are still alive?

But yeah, it'd have been nice if they explained all that in the episode - what the sigil was about, why Cas wasn't affected, etc.

It's a minor nitpick when it comes down to it. We can just assume it has to do with hosts being alive or dead, I suppose.

As for the absence of the current President-elect. I love Liliaeth's comment below! I think I'll make that my new headcanon!
borgmama1of5
Dec. 9th, 2016 01:13 pm (UTC)
Given the plot summary--Luci takes over the President?! and the writers for this one, I was actually surprised that I was okay with this episode. Mostly because, unlike some of their eps, Sam, Dean, and Cas were written in character.

We got a big build up to Vince saying 'yes' at the start of the season...here we get a few words (something like 'so you'll help me make the world a better place') and President over-the-top religious says ok. It was a little odd to not give us a more to contrast pre-and-post-Luci president. I think we were supposed to assume that seeing later how much his staff believed in his religiousness meant he had been a good guy, which is not necessarily an assumption everyone would make. Also, what was the point of his conversation with himself? I would have liked if Luci had done some gloating there to show the President just how badly he screwed up...

Ketch's magic egg felt like a deus ex machina device...although the show really had painted the boys into a corner with not having anything to combat Luci with...I guess even finding the egg in the Bunker would have felt forced...

Trying to remember when Dean said there was a black president--was it at the start of this season when his mom came back or earlier? I guess we are to assume there'd been an election and a new president since that remark, although if it was indeed earlier this season, and Dean said the current president was black, then the new president's taking of the reins went really fast in order for him to have gotten his whole staff and his FBI handlers kowtowing to his religious bend so thoroughly...

It's pretty creepy that this episode was written before the US election. I wonder how it would have felt to watch if Hilary had won...

I am pretty sure you can figure the nephilim fetus is not following human baby rules. I was kind of stunned that show would imply Kelly was going to have to have an abortion--talk about opening a can of worms among viewership!

Where did Luci go is a big question. My gut feeling is that we're not done with him yet...If indeed they did successfully send him back to the Cage, we should have gotten a flash of him back there. We didn't...so I don't think he is...hopefully he's been powered down though, so if (when) they boys have to fight him again they don't have to find another convenient prop...

As for Sam and Dean not booking it out of the motel after their success--I knew as soon as Crowley and Rowena split so efficiently that something bad was going to happen to the boys. And as Cas and Kelly snuck out, I was silently screaming at the TV for them to leave too! However, I can accept that their self-preservation instincts weren't functioning because they were reacting to the fact that this was the President of the United States that they had just exorcised and Sam especially needed to be sure he was all right. The Winchesters can face any supernatural evil out there without blinking an eye...but being responsible for the well-being of the most powerful human in America was out of their pay grade and their reactions were slowed.

I'm actually intrigued with the potential of 'boys imprisoned by powerful humans' plot. The episodes where they were up against Henrickson are some of my favorites. I wonder if the BMoL will be the ones who get them out...Would prefer it wasn't but I think it's being set up to show that the BMoL have so much more skill than the incompetent Americans...

hells_half_acre
Dec. 10th, 2016 02:41 am (UTC)
[...]Also, what was the point of his conversation with himself? I would have liked if Luci had done some gloating there to show the President just how badly he screwed up...

Yeah, I think it would have been better if we actually had some sympathy for the Prez, or at least knew who he was at a person rather than assumptions made after the fact based on how his aides acted around him.

Ketch's magic egg felt like a deus ex machina device...[...]I guess even finding the egg in the Bunker would have felt forced...

They couldn't have found the egg in the bunker, because then it would have been a question of "why didn't Dean find that when he was trying to save Sam from Gadreel?" so it couldn't have been something they owned, or could be found through research, it had to be something that they'd never seen before.

But yes, VERY deus-ex-machina, and lazy writing, imho - which is ross-leming/buckners downfall every time.

Trying to remember when Dean said there was a black president--was it at the start of this season when his mom came back or earlier? I guess we are to assume there'd been an election and a new president since that remark, although if it was indeed earlier this season, and Dean said the current president was black, then the new president's taking of the reins went really fast in order for him to have gotten his whole staff and his FBI handlers kowtowing to his religious bend so thoroughly...

We'll have to wait for the transcripts to go up on SuperWiki. I can't help you out timeline wise, because all these dates are currently big "unknowns" on my calendars. Technically, if they're in 2016 and we assume the season finale last year happened in the spring, then they're still in summer 2016. So, yeah, timing doesn't work out at all, unless Obama only had one term and that reference was a long long time ago.

It's pretty creepy that this episode was written before the US election. I wonder how it would have felt to watch if Hilary had won...

Probably it would have been less depressing.

I am pretty sure you can figure the nephilim fetus is not following human baby rules. I was kind of stunned that show would imply Kelly was going to have to have an abortion--talk about opening a can of worms among viewership!

In America anyway. :P Though, I'm sure there's a large crossover between religious people and anti-choice people, so they'd make an exception for a potential child of Satan.

...If indeed they did successfully send him back to the Cage, we should have gotten a flash of him back there. We didn't...so I don't think he is...hopefully he's been powered down though, so if (when) they boys have to fight him again they don't have to find another convenient prop...

I really hope it was just accidentally anti-climatic and he's indeed gone. I kind of feel like they've milked Lucifer for all he's worth at this point. But that's my opinion, and they could prove me wrong, who knows.

...but being responsible for the well-being of the most powerful human in America was out of their pay grade and their reactions were slowed.

Perhaps - maybe they just wanted him to wake up to see how much he remembered, or if he was still a danger or whatever? I don't know - I just wish they could have explained it better, rather than "now the heroes are going to do something stupid."

I wonder if the BMoL will be the ones who get them out...Would prefer it wasn't but I think it's being set up to show that the BMoL have so much more skill than the incompetent Americans.

Yeah, I'm thinking it's going to be a reason for the BMoL to get the Winchesters under their thumb... beholden to them in some way due to favours done, or something.

I'm a little pessimistic about it because, again, I don't really like that plot - but that's down to my own personal tastes and not a fault of the writing at all.

Elaine McCourt
Dec. 9th, 2016 01:16 pm (UTC)
I liked this episode, despite its flaws - and for a Buckner / Ross-Leming script, that's no small thing. I was both pleased and relieved by the end of it.

Stuff I particularly liked:
- the inverted crosses. Old school!
- Crowley exploding Rowena's 'latest fiance' and her declaring it sweet.
- Acknowledging Cas is powerful; wiping memories, not flinching from an explosion, noticing the Bunker wards had gone down.
- Mr Ketch being a bad ass and apparently helping the Winchesters.

Stuff I didn't like:
- the President and staff praying.
- Mr Ketch's awful English accent.

Stuff that was dumb but I'll forgive for the sake of plot:
- Kelly giving Castiel the slip. Come on, Cas, focus!
- Sam and Dean not hightailing it out of there. I'll rationalise it away by assuming they wanted to make sure Lucifer was out of there and that the President was still alive, but still.

With ref to the pregnancy and noticing / feeling it, I'm just going to assume devil-babies / Nephilim are more potent.

So all in all, yay! A B/RL ep that didn't totally suck, some dumb moments but it forwarded the plot and gave us a mid-season cliffhanger to keep us on tenterhooks. I'm gonna call that a win.
hells_half_acre
Dec. 10th, 2016 02:43 am (UTC)
You and I are basically on the same page on this one with what we liked and didn't like and were *shrug* about!

I really have nothing to add, because you've summed it up so well!
rovallie5
Dec. 9th, 2016 06:36 pm (UTC)
I remember when I read an spoiler related to this storyline of the president being possesed by Lucifer, and back then I thought SPN have reached a new level of craziness; and now that I've seen the episode, and a woman carries the spawn of Lucifer...yeah I still believe the same. And this brought me back to that boy Jesse Turner in S5,although he was the offspring of a human and demon, they're using a similar plot, but even bigger because this's not anybody, is Lucifer's son; so at this moment I'm still trying to digest what's going on, and what could happen, because I honestly didn't see this coming.

Hahaha seriously after seeing Dean and Sam being arrested, I want someone to mention how they were the same boys who caused so much trouble in the past that isn't their first time in jail, and how they are supposedly dead.

Mr. Ketch, even though I loved his entrance, still I don't trust him; the BMoL have this speech of wanting to help, but so far Lady Tony tortured Sam, then tried to kill Dean, and Ketch have already killed an innocent to clean up the mess Winchesters do. So unless something happen,I just don't buy this good intention of helping.

Finally, as you said,Spn possibly have their own timeline, I've lost track in what year they are lol, or simply didn't want to get involved with the rapist. And also, as the episode was written previous to he US elections, instead of picking Trump or Hilary, they decided to create this fictional POTUS; but still the foreshawoding wow haha
hells_half_acre
Dec. 10th, 2016 02:48 am (UTC)
Agreed agreed agreed.

Not much to add to what you say!

Currently, SPN would be in ~Summer 2018, if they followed linear time. They don't follow linear time though, so usually they expect the audience to believe they're in the time around when the episode airs. (I don't follow that rule though with the timeline, and I go off of dialogue and the dates they talk about.)

And yeah, unintentional foreshadowing for sure. :P

rovallie5
Dec. 14th, 2016 03:30 pm (UTC)
Hahaha long time ago I simply assumed SPN screw those years as Souless Sam and Purgatory. But still thanks for telling me they're two years ahead of us :)
hells_half_acre
Dec. 14th, 2016 11:38 pm (UTC)
Well, officially they aren't two years ahead, but narrative-ly they are... it's all rather confusing. :P
khek
Dec. 10th, 2016 01:06 am (UTC)
Here's my review: Sam and Dean looked good, although at some points they seemed to have green screen scenery behind them. (or maybe that was because they were out and about in the sun, so it just looked odd?) The President is Lucifer. Jesse is going to have a new friend. The British MoL could have solved the Apocolypse without sacrificing poor Adam. And yeah...I am so confused by pretty much everything after President Jeff (who I would also prefer to Cheetoh-head) appeared on screen.

At the end, I thought that Lucifer escaped? If not, why did they linger so much on the white light (And shouldn't Luci be red?) going through the heating grate? I thought that meant he got away, despite what Rowena did.

I kept getting distracted though, or maybe losing interest. I'm hoping that the next episode knocks us all off our feet, because this one was a "meh" for me. Except that the boys looked good, and they had some excellent quips. (And I loved the looks between Sam and Dean after the flamethrower was put into play.)
hells_half_acre
Dec. 10th, 2016 02:51 am (UTC)
Lucifer wouldn't be red, because Crowley is red (crossroad's demon) - despite the red eyes, Lucifer is still an angel - hence why he has to ask permission to occupy a vessel.

I guess we'll have to wait until January to find out if the lingering on the white light was for the "drama" of his defeat or the "suggestion" of a possible escape. I do admit that it definitely wasn't 100% clear.

This episode was definitely meh for me too. Granted, I've had a hard week, but it was harder than usual for me to keep things positive in my review. There were definitely some great quips though, and I did love he visuals of that grenade launcher scene. :)
kailita
Dec. 24th, 2016 06:34 am (UTC)
Happy holidays! I finally caught up! And…I’m not sure if I’m glad that I did? :/ Okay, positives first.

I also enjoyed the creepy effect of the crosses turning upside down. It DID feel very vintage SPN! I thought the special effects were cool in this episode overall. Or at least this is the first episode where watching Rowena conjure and chant actually seemed impressive to me. I’ll have to watch it again to really identify why that is. I didn’t hate Mr. Ketch as much as I thought I would (does that count as a positive? Haha). I mean, I dislike him as a person, obviously – but his character might bring an interesting contrast, if they flesh him out more.

You didn’t happen to note what brown jacket Sam was wearing, did you?

I keep forgetting that Lucifer has to ask permission to enter a body, because it seems like he’s having NO PROBLEM securing tons of vessels, one after the next. How long did it take him to break down poor Nick back in season 5? But I guess we’ve been having this problem since season 9 when it comes to unexplained angel armies finding vessels. I guess Supernatural assumes that America is 50% composed of religious fanatics.

Speaking of…has Phil Sgriccia never seen people pray? Um, let me assure you, it is not common to KNEEL ON THE FLOOR during impromptu prayer (and I find that a very unbelievable response, even if every member in that cabinet was religious). Between this and the American Nightmare episode where the anti-Catholic fundamentalists crossed themselves (?), we are dealing entirely in stereotypes…and inaccurate stereotypes at that. (Which, of course, is this duo’s specialty, now that I think about it.) I’m sure this is something that minority religions experience all the time in TV and media, unfortunately. Anyway…I was rolling my eyes back so far into my head that I wasn’t even able to focus during that scene.

Why does Dean want to power down the bunker warding for NO REASON? Why can’t they meet Crowley somewhere else? I’m sure this will pay off in a later episode, now that Sam and Dean have been captured – either Crowley or Lucifer coming in to snoop around, or maybe even British Men of Letters. But it BOTHERS me that they can’t come up with any kind of legitimate reason for the warding to be down. There’s no reason for us to be inviting Crowley over.
kailita
Dec. 24th, 2016 06:36 am (UTC)
“Cas takes Kelly out the other room, but for some reason Sam and Dean stay in the room? WHY?! This annoys me because there's no reason to stay there and all it gets them is arrested when the security team come in and find them with an unconscious President.” THANK YOU, this was also in my notes. I like Sam taking responsibility for SAVING ALL THE PEOPLE these days, and I could see him wanting to make 100% sure that the president was okay. But I feel like Dean would prioritize Sam’s safety and get him out of there. He’s not dumb, and he's never felt obliged towards authority figures (with the notable exception of Dad, of course).

I really enjoyed the Long Arm of the Law episodes in seasons 2 and 3…and even the Surveillance Leviathans in season 7 added some helpful menace and reintroduced stakes and peril (RIP Paranoid Frank, you were great while you lasted). But I think I’m with you – it really depends on how they handle it. Even within this episode alone – if a secret service motorcade is blown up, you are going to have elite forces SWARMING that area within the hour. I try hard to suspend my disbelief, but honestly, all of the practical logistics surrounding the president and security protocols in a post-9/11 world just made this whole episode rub me the wrong way. We could pull this kind of thing off in a small backwoods town that operates more on habit and instinct than strict procedures – but when you bring the PRESIDENT into it?? That would require a much more strategic, elaborate plan that I don’t think we could do justice in 45 minutes.

Also…what do we think about Kelly wanting to keep this Satanic spawn?? I guess it’s too early for me to try to comprehend her motives, but this seems, um, insane??? This whole Nephilim plotline makes me wary. Season 12 has seemed uneven to me so far…I find the Mom dynamic endlessly fascinating, and the Big Bad plot lines hopelessly problematic.

Is this supposed to be the midseason finale? (I think they advertised it that way on Facebook?) Do they usually do the midseason finale so early in the season (episode 8?)?
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