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We're back to rewatches!!! Is it that time of year already?!!? The answer is yes - so I hope you like long-winded rambling and weird nitpicking, because that's what you're going to get!!

Out of the Darkness, Into the Fire

Little refresher on the previous season is always nice, because I'd nearly forgotten.

NOW

Dean in the smoke. Wearing clothes. (I'm also keeping track of clothes - I can't forget that!)

Dean is in his murder shirt still and he's wearing his weird blue jacket. I forget what I originally called it, but it should be renamed to "Weird Blue Jacket" because that's what I call it in my notes.

Dean *sees Amara*: "Hey! The hell's going on?"
- Smooth Dean, always so smooth.

Sam wakes up in the car, which has its horn blaring even though no one is leaning on it. He remembers that Dean disappeared from the car before Sam was knocked out.

And Dean is sleepingn in a field of pretty pretty flowers - because he is also a pretty pretty flower.

Man, there's this moment when Sam spots Dean where you can see him think "Is Dean dead?" I wonder just how often in their lives they've seen their brother's prone body and thought "is this the time...?" and sometimes it IS. Geez, the Winchesters break my heart. But seriously, you can see it in Sam's face, and I just want to credit Jared for always keeping that fear there.

Sam: "Hey! Hey! Hey, you okay?"
Dean: "Yeah, where's the car?"
Sam: "It's uh... about a mile that way."

- But Hells! You say, how did Sam know what direction to walk in to find Dean!?! Well, I have two possible answers for you. 1)They have a metaphysical/psychic connection that works as an unconscious homing beacon. 2)Sam used the strategy of walking in increasingly larger circles while looking for Dean. Personally, I think it's the second one, because I'm a buzz kill.

Dean: "What?!"
Sam: "Seriously? The darkness hit - you disappeared, you remember none of this?"

- Sam, calm down.

Dean: "She saved me."
Sam: "What? Who?"
Dean: "The Darkness."

- DUN DUN DUN. Saved you from what Dean? Sam's perfectly fine.

Dean: "She thanked me."
Sam: "For what?"
Dean: "Setting her free."
Sam: "You didn't set her free. I set her free."

- Poor Sam, never gets any goddamn credit for the hard work he does.

Dean: "Doesn't matter. I mean yeah, you said the spell, but I had the Mark, so lock and key?"
- Yeah, but we already know that Dean was the lock in this metaphor, which means Sam was the key. I'm sort of joking around about Sam feeling gipped that the Darkness isn't thanking him.... and I don't WANT her too, because Sam has had enough "evil" lusting after him in his life... but it does kind of annoy me that the Darkness credits Dean with setting her free, when he literally had absolutely nothing to do with it. Now, if they described the connection as being born out of the fact that Dean bore HER Mark for so long, that he was influenced by HER thoughts and she in turn was influenced and drawn to his, then THAT would make sense - and maybe that's what they were going for, but they didn't explain it very well. I mean, if it was really about being the one to set her free, then she should be feeling oddly connected to Rowena, which is a slashfic that some would love, I'm sure.

Dean: All I know is that we set her free, and we're going to put her back in no matter what it takes!"
*gets in car*
Dean: "What the-"
*gets out, looks at stuck tire*
Dean: "You just let me get in the car?!"
Sam: "You were on a roll."

- Awww... it's like all those times I said my bit and then made a dramatic exit from the room... and none of my family said anything when I slunk back in half a minute later because there had been absolutely no reason to leave the room other than having a good exit line.

Oh yeah, Castiel has a case of the mad dog curse!

Did Cas kill a dog?!?! Oh no!

And Crowley escaped death once again - but MAN his vessel has a hole in it now.

Cas doesn't kill the kid though, that's good.

Then the brothers come up to an abandoned scene of death and destruction... but they look attractive, and that's the important bit.

Have I been calling this jacket of Sam's brown or green - because it looks very green here. Also, it's either been stiched up at the back of right shoulder or there's a brand name embroidered there. I'm going to go with stitches.

Aww, the deputy is so cute - I'm sad she'll eventually die.

Dean: "So what, she shows up and everyone goes 28 days later? We didn't!"
Sam: "Yeah, but I was in the car - and you - you said she protected you."

- I wonder just what they've done to the car to make it so that Sam's explanation of being safe from FOG was "I was in the car" - like... can no evil fog enter the car? I'm actually serious - I want to know just how enchanted-for-safety Baby is.

And we see Dean pack the holy oil. He still keeps it in the old urn... but they have to have gotten a new supply since the days when Cas had to travel to Isreal to get it. I wonder where holy oil comes from - is it the same as holy water? Can you just bless a bunch of crisco? I would like to make some holy muffins for my anti-angel brunch. Though, I guess it would only be effective if I then lit the muffins on fire and pelleted angels with them. Hahaha... man, now I want muffins.

Dean: "So the smoke mutated them? Yeah, sure, just a couple hours ago I killed Death, I'm pretty much open for anything."
- Death is alive, you can't tell me otherwise or I'll be angry... because I STILL think that should have been impossible. At most, he's been rendered weak, like Famine was after Sam burst him.

I love how this deputy doesn't even question that some random FBI agent is going to sew up her wounds. I mean, I guess he could have emergency medical training, but still.

So, it's sort of weird that the infected zombie guy is trying to go after the baby... like, if they're infected by the Darkness, why would they attack the Darkness? It's WEIRD. Also, they never come back? Like, there's just this initial outbreak and then that's it.

It's sort of weird... I kinda wonder if God KNEW that the Darkness, if released, would have to be born? And would, for a limited time, be a mostly defenseless child? So... it was actually HIM that made the infection, to infect the humans around her and make them mindlessly kill a baby instead of protect it? I dunno, maybe I'm grasping at straws.

Dean: "You did what you were trained to do."
Deputy: "They don't train you to shoot your friends, I panicked. I could have-"
Dean: "Those boys weren't boys, they were monsters and they were a threat. Anybody could have panicked, not anybody could have done what you did."
Deputy: "This job is supposed to be saving people."
Dean: "Yeah, well, that sounds better on paper, doesn't it?"

- So, here we get a theme that I really wish they'd emphasized more as the season went on. Saving People vs. Hunting Things. I also can't help but read/watch this with eyes of someone who also sees the current swath of police-shootings in the US... I think in both cases, we get a service that was meant to save people, putting too much money and focus into their arsenal of weapons and the use of them. When Dean quoted the family business to Sam 10 years ago, he emphasized the "Saving People" part, but now, he's been doing the "hunting things" part so long and so efficiently, with stronger skills and better weapons, that it's always his go-to solution to a problem. "Can we kill it?"
- He also immediately assures the deputy that "those boys were monsters" - and he's not wrong, but he's also automatically given-up all hope that they might ever be saved. It doesn't even register as a possibility anymore... even though Dean himself was just saved from something. Though, that also might be feeding into it. Does Dean feel like he deserved to be saved? We know in S4 he didn't... so maybe that's it. He can't give himself a chance, let alone anyone else.

Flashback to the Darkness.

Dean: "I know what you are."
Amara: "Really? I've been gone so long. I didn't think anyone remembered."
Dean: "Well, Death painted a hell of a picture."
Amara: "I don't know this Death and he doesn't know me."

- It's interesting that Amara doesn't know Death, because that implies that Death came after Creation - which makes sense, given that you have to be living to die. Yet, we also know that the arch-angels came before Creation...but the arch-angels aren't immortal (I mean, they CAN be killed, we've seen it.) So, was Death "born" only the first time someone died? Yet, Death tells us that eventually he'll reap God. So... does Death cease to exist only once God is dead. That would make sense to me, you need life to die, so God would come first and create life, then Death would come, but when there is no more life to take, there is also no more Death.
- But what's Amara "The Darkness" then? - she's not Death, yet she can destory all of God's creations. So... what lies in that destruction? Or was Death there before, reaping after Amara's destructions, and just never revealing himself to her as he did so. That's also a possibility. I see Death as something OUTSIDE the pantheon of the world. But that's me. So, it could be, rather, that Death is a creation of THIS creation - and the previous creations that Amara destroyed, either had a different Death or no Death at all (but then, we get to the "how were they destoryed?" Were they not living? Did God first attempt to build an army of robots? There had to be SOME form of Death in previous creations, but perhaps, they went by a different name and were a different being. Still, I prefer to view Death as eternal and outside of Gods...though, again, Death would cease if life ceased, and if "God=The Creator of Life as We Know It", then arguably, Death is bound to this particular God (ie: Life).

And that has been your SPN Theology Class with hells_half_acre.

Dean: "You saying I shouldn't try to kill you right now?"
Amara: "Am I saying that? Or are you?"

- And the head games begin!

Sam discovers that the zombies have an expiry date.

Oh man, I feel so bad for this dad. Like... he was going to have a regular baby at one point, then Amara came and usurped that baby's body... and then he dies eventually anyway. Sucks to be that dude.

And Crowley gets a new vessel, temporarily, anyway... and it's an attractive older woman! Yay! :)

Haha, the dorkiest white-suburban-y orgy ever.

Awww, I'd forgotten that widower-dad's wife had bled out just before the attack. So, he lives through a natural tragedy, then lives through a supernatural tragedy... well, for a while.

Mike: "He's right. I can feel it. Inside, something's happening."
Dean: "How long since you were attacked?"
Mike: "Three, four hours - question is, how long until I become like them?"

- Aww, and he even knows his time is limited. Mike has had the WORST DAY EVER. His wife's dead. He's going to be dead. His baby was usurped by the Darkness and now is not his baby at all.

Cas is still on the run, with the worst blood-shot eyes ever. So he prays... yeah, that's not going to work, sweetheart.

Cas: "I accept my transgressions and I will accept whatever punishment you dole out. I ask you to help me. Please, save me from doing worse."
- Aww, Cas just doesn't want to hurt anyone. Poor Cas. Your brothers and sisters are douchebags.

Back to the hospital....

Dean: "Well, you know where I stand."
Deputy: "No, you're not- you can't be serious. And if he goes out there, they'll kill him."
Dean: "So, we just wait around here for him to kill us? Yeah, that's a plan."
Sam: "Or, we just wait for him to die. There was a - whatever you want to call it - a Rabid attacking the closet door, and he just died. These things have a shelf life."
Deputy: "No, he's right, we lock him up, and we find a cure - this is a hospital."
Dean: "Yeah, well, call it a hunch, but I don't think you're going to find this in the medical books."

- Also, I don't think you're going to cure a supernatural decease through medical means in the next hour, guys. I mean... it kinda takes a WHILE to find cures for deceases - and sometimes we don't even find cures, we just find vaccines and "cure" the deceases by preventing them.

And Mike continues to be tragic, making a deal to have his daughter looked after, while he goes off to die.

Also, I hope SOMEONE has some baby formula for newborns, because that baby is going to need food soon.. if not now.

Dean: "Why do I get the feeling this is going to bite us in the ass"
- Because deep down you know the baby isn't human?

Sam: "Look, we can just wait for them to die."
Dean: "And how long is that? And when they infect others, how long is that? No, we stay here, that baby dies!"

- Ah, see, this is why I'm thinking the "Rabids" are some earth immune system, trying to strike while the iron is hot and the Darkness is vulnerable. Dean, being weirdly mindf*cked, senses this, and that's why he's insistent on saving the baby... OR... it could just be that Dean's making sense, because it's true that they don't know how fast this infection is spreading... they could be waiting for the entire population of the world to die, while, meanwhile, if they just went out and shot the infected they find before they contaminate anyone else, they could put an end to it. It's hard to make decisions when you don't know what the stakes are.

Dean: "We did this, Sam. Okay? We broke it. We bought it. You know there's no other way."
- Ah, also a guilt thing.

Dean: "Where the hell are you Cas?"
Cas: "Well, I'm- I'm okay."
Dean: "You don't sound okay."
Cas: "Dean, I am fine. And besides, what I have, you can't help me."
Dean: "What do you mean what you have?"

- The interesting here is that Dean doesn't KNOW what Cas "has"... so... what Dean DOES know is that everyone he's come into contact with since the Darkness was unleashed has been infected with the black veins... I wonder if Dean thinks Cas might be similarly afflicted.

Cas: "Just, please, tell Sam, Rowena escaped with the Book of the Damned and the Codex."
- Awww, Cas was trying to be a good hunting partner and letting Sam know the enemy escaped with the weapons. Like, Cas believes he's about to be taken away, so he's like "better tell Sam everything he needs to know..." only he called DEAN'S phone, which means he was also like "I want to know if Dean has been saved, that would be good news to go out on." Oh, my heart.

Dean: "Forget Rowena, where are you?"
Cas: "No, you tell me - the Mark?"
Dean: "Oh, you're worried about me after everything I did to-"

- God, these two - "Don't worry about me, I'm worried about you!" "Don't worry about me, I don't deserve it!"

Cas: "Dean, is it gone?"
Dean: "Yes, I'm good. I mean, I'm not great."

- Also, what a time to be honest about your emotions, Dean. I love you.

Cas: "This is good news."
Sam: "Hey Cas!"
Cas: "Sam!"
Dean: "Okay, you're turn, talk to us about the Darkness."
Cas: "Why would I talk about the Darkness?"
Sam: "Because it's free!"
Cas: "No, that can't be."
Sam: "Removing the Mark opened some kind of a lock. Dean saw her."
Cas: "The Darkness is a woman?"

- Ah, I'd forgotten that Castiel knew about the Darkness. I'll have to pay attention to how much he knows, as that will affect the fic I'm currently writing. BUT, it appears that he doesn't know that the Darkness is female in appearance, or that she's at all tied to the Mark. So, my fic remains safe from edits for the time being.

Dean: "Well that's what we're asking you. We were hoping you could tell us what kind of defcon screwed we are!"
*Cas hears noise*
Cas: "Sam, Dean, goodbye, it may be some time before we see each other again."

-Awww.. like, how long Cas? Because I don't know what your deal with Heaven before was, but Gadreel was imprisoned for MILLENIA... so, if you just gave yourself up to Heaven, said you'd be punished to their pleasure... you might very well not see the boys ever again... or maybe he's thinking he'll see them eventually, because they'll be dead and in heaven when Cas is finally freed. This is depressing to think about.

Deputy: "FBI my ass."
- You're just NOW figuring this out?

Back to Crowley... at least all the white suburban folks went out with a bang.

Hey! Super Handsome Asian-Australian Demon! (SHA-AD)

Crowley: "Took you long enough"
Demon: "We came as soon as you called - what do we call you?"
Crowley: "King!"

- I love Crowley in this meatsuit

Crowley: "What about the other white meatsuit?"
Demon: "Secure..."

- Also, I love how he calls it the "other white meatsuit." Like, does he have some different ethnicities of meatsuit depending on the occasion, but white male privilege is just too good to give up?

SHA-AD: "...you didn't call for help until after the orgy?"
Crowley: "I apologize... for nothing."

- You tell him Crowley. You've had a rough day and deserved that orgy.


Dean: "We have a plan - same plan as it's always been - in order to get out we go through!"
Sam: "And? How's that been working for us?"
Dean: "We can't save Cas if we're stuck inside a hospital. Just like I can't strap on a time-machine, go back, and tell Cain to shove that Mark up his ass, or stop you from releasing the Darkness. Now, have we made mistakes. Yes. Hell Yes. And we can analyze each and everyone of them over a couple of frosties when we're old and farting sawdust and OUT OF THIS ROOM. Right now I can gear up, I can head out, I can save that frickin' baby, which is exactly what I'm going to do!"

- Oh Dean... I see the origin of this fight. Sam is suddenly like "perhaps - and stay with me on this - but perhaps our strategy of shooting through our problems without considering the consequences is a mistake...judging by what just happened when I shot through our last problem without considering the consequences..." And Dean is like "BUT IT'S MY TURN TO NOT CONSIDER THE CONSEQUENCES! THIS IS AN ILLTIMED EPIPHANY!"

Sam: "When did we forget how to do this?"
Dean: "What?"
Sam: "Dean, if we don't change, right now, all of this crap is going to keep repeating itself [...] This, this kill first ask questions later, what happened to us?! Hunting things, we're good at that, sure we're great at that, but that's only half of the bumper sticker man."

- Yup, like I said, Dean is like "you have to decide that shooting things is wrong RIGHT WHEN I WANT TO SHOOT THINGS." You know, if my pet theory is right and Castiel was created solely to be a spanner in the works, then Sam was born to be the same thing for Dean. Haha, I love them both.

Dean: "Sam, I am TRYING to save that baby."
Sam: "And what about the others out there?"
Dean: "You mean the ones that are trying to kill us?!"
Sam: "I mean the ones that are sick, the ones that are dying!"
Dean: "Yeah, who won't rest until they've infected us all."
Sam: "So, we just forget about a cure?"

- So, it comes down to where you put your energy when it comes to saving - do you choose a single being to focus all your energy on? A baby. A certain victim. Your brother? Or do you focus on everyone - solve the route problem. Find the way to save the greatest amount of people?

Sam: "Saving people means all of the people, Dean. Not just that baby, not just each other. I unleashed a force on this world that could destory it - to save you."
Dean: "I told you not to!"
Sam: "And I'd do it again, in a second, I would do it again. And that is what I'm talking about - this isn't on you, it is on US. We have to change."

- I really liked this theme, because, arguably, I think Carver was setting it up from the beginning - it's similar to Kripke's arc, where we first explore the co-dependency, and then the only way to save the world is for one of them (Dean) to let the other go... but, it doesn't throw the baby out with the bath-water, because the message is still that LOVE conquered all, but that co-dependency was a hinderence.

Carver brought that lesson back in a slightly different way - it's not so much co-dependency as selfishness. Since S8, when Dean talked Sam out of closing the gates of hell. It's been about the brothers choosing each other over the world. Closing hell would have benefitted the world, but Dean would prefer Sam live, and the world continues to suffer from the deads of Hell. Letting Death take Dean away (and dying) would have saved the world from the Mark of Cain, but Sam didn't want to be without Dean (and he still would have been without him in Heaven, so it didn't matter to Sam whether he lived or died if Dean were gone.) So, Sam chose Dean and the world suffered. This is Sam realizing that their selfishness is costing too much - that his in particular (and isn't that just salt on the wounds when it comes to Sam) is costing far too much. That saving each other is hurting the world. That, just like in S5, they both have to learn to let go - to put the lives of other people over their own.

Dean: "What are you thinking?"
- Aww, and Dean listens to him.

But Dean's resistant to Sam staying back on his own...

Sam: "...I get it - Do what you do, but you got to let me do what I do too."
- I love that line, because I think it's the first time Sam's ever acknowledged their different approachs to Hunting before... their differnet mentalities. Dean saves the baby, guns ablazing. Sam does the seemingly hopeless suicide play that ends up saving multitudes, or costing him his life in the attempt, you know, or usually both. :P

And Sam REALLY should have scoped out the closet before he chose it as his safe room.

So, Sam gets bled on in a medical supply closet - MUCH like Croatoan... and much like Croatoan, he's infected. The other "Rabids" know right away... and so does Sam.

Mike: "The baby... the baby..."
Jenna: "No!"
Mike: "The baby..."
Dean: "No!"
Mike: "Amara"
Jenna: "What?"
Mike: "Her name is Amara?"

- See, I think it was a fail-safe virus... that Mike named her because he knew, once the sickness took hold, that the baby was Amara and needed to be stopped, only, a part of him also still saw it as HIS baby, so, resisted.

Now, that all being said, I love how Dean pops up beside Jenna when he gets back on his feat. It's awesomely framed.

Crowley's back to being Crowley.

Demon: "Sir, there are rumours from hell. The Darkness has been released."
Crowley: "The Darkness? Please - Myth, it's a bedtime story - something that daddy demons threaten toddler demons with to get them to eat their vegetables. Even if it was true, what's the concern? Darkness, King of Hell, natural alleys."
SHA-AD: "It's just, something happened, Sir. In the cage?"
Crowley: "What?"
SHA-AD: "They said it sounded like a frightened animal. All of Hell heard, like someone was going crazy. The rumour is that Michael or Lucifer, one of them, is trying to warn us."

- So, this is the thing, the Mark had to have still been on Lucifer - the noise was the spell removing it from him as well. And it could very well be that Lucifer is trying to warn them...or get them to set him loose again... did they ever answer the question of what happened to Michael? I think they allude to it later in the season, but I can't remember right now.

Back to Cas!

And his angel brothers are going to torture him rather than take him to heaven. Awww... poor Cas.

And Dean tries to give Jenna a pep talk... yeah, don't listen to him, that baby is going to kill you, Jenna.

Sam: "Hey, you good?"
Dean: "Yeah, about 40 miles out of town. Far as I can tell, it's isolated in Superior."
Sam: "Well that's something."
Dean: "How about you, you okay?"
Sam: "What'd you expect? Like it or not, I'm going to find a cure."
Dean: "Yeah, I know you are. Man, things are screwy right now. I know we don't have any answers, but at least we got one win."
Sam: "I hear ya."

- Awww... Sammy.
- I like how Sam doesn't actually lie to Dean. "What'd you expect?" is not a "yes, I'm okay" it's a "answer this question for me." And Dean expects him to be okay.... just like Dean knows Sam will find a cure, because he's set his mind to it.
- And I do think that, despite the flashback Dean is about to have, that Dean really does want to save the baby and Jenna because it guarantees them "one win."

Flashback time

Dean: "If you're as bad as they say you are, how come you haven't hurt me."
Amara: "For the same reason you haven't hurt me. We're bound, Dean. We'll always be bound. You helped me. I helped you. No matter where I am. Who I am. We will always help each other."

- CREEPY NON-CON FRIENDSHIP.

And Sam is infected.

And the baby is Amara.

And so we begin the season....


Hope you enjoyed! I would like to thank the Winchesters, for wearing the same clothes all episode and Dean, for only taking off his jacket once.

I'll try for another one of these either on the weekend or on Monday - we'll see!

Comments

( 14 comments — Leave a comment )
raloria
Sep. 30th, 2016 08:28 am (UTC)
Warning! Long comment ahead.

First of all, I love your reviews. I know I didn't read or comment on all of your initial S11 reviews, but I love how your mind works. :)

But Hells! You say, how did Sam know what direction to walk in to find Dean!?! Well, I have two possible answers for you. 1)They have a metaphysical/psychic connection that works as an unconscious homing beacon. 2)Sam used the strategy of walking in increasingly larger circles while looking for Dean. Personally, I think it's the second one, because I'm a buzz kill.

I'm choosing to go with option number one here....or maybe he tracked his cell phone? Or maybe they weren't working due to Amara's fog cloud? But yeah, the brotherly connection. I'm going with that one! :D

can no evil fog enter the car? I'm actually serious - I want to know just how enchanted-for-safety Baby is.

Totally a fog-free car. It just can't withstand being t-boned by a semi....but supernatural fog? Totally safe. ;)

I know what you mean about the holy oil! Seems like there's a never ending supply in there now. I mean it's been used a few times...like in Season 9 when Dean trapped Gadreel and in 11x02 Sam had to use a bunch to save the townspeople. Maybe Cas keeps going back to refill it?

- Death is alive, you can't tell me otherwise or I'll be angry... because I STILL think that should have been impossible. At most, he's been rendered weak, like Famine was after Sam burst him.

YES! I totally agree on this. How can Death be killed? It should be impossible, right? Even the other Horsemen aren't dead, correct? They were just weakened? And I still say if Death was dead that would mean nobody else could die - ergo, if people are dying.....Death must still be alive!

For the record, it's nice to know Julian believes Death is still alive, too. He said so during his panel at VanCon. ;)

So, it's sort of weird that the infected zombie guy is trying to go after the baby... like, if they're infected by the Darkness, why would they attack the Darkness? It's WEIRD.

Pretty sure none of them had any idea the baby was her. Even her "dad" at the hospital didn't indicate that he had any knowledge that she was anything besides a normal human baby. And yes, he told Dean and Jenna that the baby's name was Amara, but how much more did he know? Hard to say. And how did she tell him that? Did he see her in the fog cloud like Dean did? I mean, how else would she communicate that info.?

- So, this is the thing, the Mark had to have still been on Lucifer - the noise was the spell removing it from him as well. And it could very well be that Lucifer is trying to warn them...or get them to set him loose again... did they ever answer the question of what happened to Michael? I think they allude to it later in the season, but I can't remember right now.

Yeah, but we never saw the Mark on Lucifer and besides, he gave it to Cain. But then when Cain gave it to Dean, Cain still had it on his arm, which has always puzzled me. And then when Chuck removed the Mark from Amara and gave it to Sam at the end of the season (briefly) it disappeared from her skin. Very confusing...and inconsistent. *sigh*

I believe Lucifer said Michael was in bad shape....huddled in the corner of the cage or something. Even Chuck said, he was usuable in the fight against Amara. Which makes you wonder....for being a powerful archangel....what the hell did Lucifer do to Michael???
hells_half_acre
Oct. 1st, 2016 02:45 am (UTC)
Maybe Cas keeps going back to refill it?

Maybe, but he hasn't had usable wings since the end of S8, so... that's a lot of frequent flyer miles being racked up. ;)

Even the other Horsemen aren't dead, correct? They were just weakened? And I still say if Death was dead that would mean nobody else could die - ergo, if people are dying.....Death must still be alive!

Exactly! They're all just weakened - that's my headcanon. Death is obviously still happening, but Death himself is resting up and not available for comment anymore.

Yeah, but we never saw the Mark on Lucifer and besides, he gave it to Cain. But then when Cain gave it to Dean, Cain still had it on his arm, which has always puzzled me. And then when Chuck removed the Mark from Amara and gave it to Sam at the end of the season (briefly) it disappeared from her skin. Very confusing...and inconsistent. *sigh*

Yeah, but we also never saw Lucifer's bare body - because he's an angel, and we can't actually SEE his real body. So, in my opinion, the fact that Cain still obviously had the Mark (and was still driven to kill by it) means that Lucifer retained the Mark too.

When God "took the Mark" from Amara, he wasn't actually TAKING the Mark - he was sealing Amara away again using the same trick as before. The "Mark" was just Amara's symbol, but it's not like Amara HAD the Mark, the Mark was there because it was AMARA. If that makes any sense... BASICALLY, that wasn't the same as when Lucifer gave Cain the Mark or when Cain gave it to Dean - the Mark had been destroyed by Rowena's spell, and that was God creating it again fresh on Sam - so, yeah, different occurrence.

But that all being said, they should have explained it a heck of a lot better.

I believe Lucifer said Michael was in bad shape....huddled in the corner of the cage or something. Even Chuck said, he was usuable in the fight against Amara. Which makes you wonder....for being a powerful archangel....what the hell did Lucifer do to Michael???

Yeah, I think that's what he eventually says... and yeah... I thought Michael was inevitably supposed to win any fight between Lucifer and himself, but apparently not!
percysowner
Oct. 1st, 2016 05:55 pm (UTC)
Which makes you wonder....for being a powerful archangel....what the hell did Lucifer do to Michael???

I'm not sure that he did anything special. Lucifer was, after all, the one who wanted to not have the epic end fight and Michael insisted. Michael was absolutely convinced he was "right" and doing his father's will. It's quite possible that he cracked once he realized that, no, Dad wasn't going to rescue him and he was stuck in The Cage for all eternity, just like the brother that he thought "deserved" to be in The Cage. I don't think Lucifer was sweetness and light, or tried to help Michael particularly. I also suspect that once Sam's soul was removed Lucifer did take out his frustration on the brother who 1) knew that Lucifer was corrupted by being given the Mark and 2) didn't do anything to intervene with God and 3) was more than willing to destroy him, or at least lock him back up in solitary. But I do think that being abandoned by God to a fate worse than death probably was a huge contributing factor to Michael's breakdown.
hells_half_acre
Oct. 4th, 2016 06:18 am (UTC)
Very good point.
borgmama1of5
Sep. 30th, 2016 12:46 pm (UTC)
This is an awesome review and I will leave a detailed comment later!
hells_half_acre
Oct. 1st, 2016 02:48 am (UTC)
Yay! :)
caranfindel
Sep. 30th, 2016 01:53 pm (UTC)
- But Hells! You say, how did Sam know what direction to walk in to find Dean!?! Well, I have two possible answers for you. 1)They have a metaphysical/psychic connection that works as an unconscious homing beacon. 2)Sam used the strategy of walking in increasingly larger circles while looking for Dean. Personally, I think it's the second one, because I'm a buzz kill.

I think it's because Sam is part golden retriever.

- Also, I love how he calls it the "other white meatsuit." Like, does he have some different ethnicities of meatsuit depending on the occasion, but white male privilege is just too good to give up?

Hee! I'm pretty sure he's actually referring to the old slogan for the pork industry - "the other white meat." But who knows; maybe he does have a closet full of multi-ethnic meatsuits.

And Dean is like "BUT IT'S MY TURN TO NOT CONSIDER THE CONSEQUENCES! THIS IS AN ILLTIMED EPIPHANY!"

LOL! That's awesome.


Carver brought that lesson back in a slightly different way - it's not so much co-dependency as selfishness. Since S8, when Dean talked Sam out of closing the gates of hell. It's been about the brothers choosing each other over the world. Closing hell would have benefitted the world, but Dean would prefer Sam live, and the world continues to suffer from the deads of Hell. Letting Death take Dean away (and dying) would have saved the world from the Mark of Cain, but Sam didn't want to be without Dean (and he still would have been without him in Heaven, so it didn't matter to Sam whether he lived or died if Dean were gone.) So, Sam chose Dean and the world suffered.


I don't think this is quite right. When Sam chose Dean (and I assume you mean when Sam chose to remove the MoC, even though he knew there could be dire consequences) he didn't know Death was an option. Dean worked that out on his own. He also didn't know that removing the MoC from Dean would release the Darkness and eventually destroy the world. The information Sam was working with was that Dean was going to get worse and worse under the MoC's influence. He thought he was saving the world as much as he was saving Dean.

Dean, on the other hand, knew exactly what he was doing when he spared Sam and swung the scythe at Death instead. Not that I blame him. Good on you, Dean.

So, this is the thing, the Mark had to have still been on Lucifer - the noise was the spell removing it from him as well.

Do we know this? I kind of thought Lucifer didn't keep it when he gave it to Cain.

Great review!
hells_half_acre
Oct. 1st, 2016 02:54 am (UTC)
Hee! I'm pretty sure he's actually referring to the old slogan for the pork industry - "the other white meat." But who knows; maybe he does have a closet full of multi-ethnic meatsuits.

Oh! Haha, that reference escaped me completely - but yeah, you're probably right.

I don't think this is quite right. When Sam chose Dean (and I assume you mean when Sam chose to remove the MoC, even though he knew there could be dire consequences) he didn't know Death was an option. Dean worked that out on his own. He also didn't know that removing the MoC from Dean would release the Darkness and eventually destroy the world. The information Sam was working with was that Dean was going to get worse and worse under the MoC's influence. He thought he was saving the world as much as he was saving Dean.

You're correct - I guess I misspoke. What I meant though, was that even when Death and Dean explained about the Darkness, Sam wasn't like "Oh shit, let me make a call" - he argued, he fought... so, yeah, it wasn't 100% "I'm going to watch the world burn!" But it WAS a reluctance to accept that Dean and Death had come up with a better solution. Does that make any sense?

And in this episode, Sam DOES say that he'd still do it again - even knowing now what he knows. He admits that he doesn't regret it, even though he knows that he SHOULD - and that he recognizes that that's a problem, that he has to change that aspect of himself somehow, so that he DOES feel regret when he chooses Dean over the world, whether knowingly or not.

Do we know this? I kind of thought Lucifer didn't keep it when he gave it to Cain.

I assume that he must have, since Cain retained it when he gave it to Dean. But, that's ALSO my preferred story, since it makes the most sense to me, so I'm extremely biased... the writers might say differently, in which case I'd be disappointed and angry, but I'd have to acknowledge that I'm wrong.
supernutjapan
Sep. 30th, 2016 02:45 pm (UTC)
*sighs* Enjoyed your review as usual!

1) I think Amara feels Dean "saved" her because he is the first thing she sees when she gets out. That's how she explains it later anyway.

2) From what I gather, Amara the Darkness doesn't destroy - she envelops everything like a big black hole and makes it all a part of her.

3) OK... about only a few people being affected by the illness to start with (it spreads though) - We find out later that these people are "unclean - Biblically" so, I don't think it's God. I think though that the smoke may have only affected people outside at the time, and the people in the car were in the car (Sam as well) so they were not infected. Dean was not infected because Amara protected him from it. She may not have infected anyone on purpose - it may have just been the path she took.

4) I think Dean is already being affected by the "save Amara" instinct as he is later, so him wanting to save this one baby is not just so that he can have "one win." Sam thinks it is, because he doesn't know how Amara affects Dean - and of course Dean doesn't know that this baby is the Darkness yet, so he thinks it's just saving a baby... but I don't think it is.

Amara: "For the same reason you haven't hurt me. We're bound, Dean. We'll always be bound. You helped me. I helped you. No matter where I am. Who I am. We will always help each other."

It could also be that she killed the mom and infected the dad on purpose so that he would die then drew Dean to her at the hospital by setting up that situation ... but that might be going a bit far




hells_half_acre
Oct. 1st, 2016 03:09 am (UTC)
Thanks!

1) I think Amara feels Dean "saved" her because he is the first thing she sees when she gets out. That's how she explains it later anyway.

True, I forgot about that line.

2) From what I gather, Amara the Darkness doesn't destroy - she envelops everything like a big black hole and makes it all a part of her.

Ooo, good point - she does swallow people's souls rather than kill them (for the most part). That makes a LOT of sense. So, basically, God creates and Amara consumes... VERY interesting. I will definitely talk about this more going forward!!

these people are "unclean - Biblically" so, I don't think it's God. I think though that the smoke may have only affected people outside at the time, and the people in the car were in the car (Sam as well) so they were not infected. Dean was not infected because Amara protected him from it. She may not have infected anyone on purpose - it may have just been the path she took.

Hmmm...right... and that IS the clue that Billy gives Sam to help him figure out that holy oil might work in the cure. And good point about the other car not being affected either, so it might not just be enchanted Baby. ;)

4) I think Dean is already being affected by the "save Amara" instinct as he is later, so him wanting to save this one baby is not just so that he can have "one win." Sam thinks it is, because he doesn't know how Amara affects Dean - and of course Dean doesn't know that this baby is the Darkness yet, so he thinks it's just saving a baby... but I don't think it is.

I think it's like... when your brain makes you think you're making a decision yourself, but you aren't really. Like... when you really want to eat cake, so you rationalize it - you're like "I worked out this morning, I can eat some cake - I deserve it!" But really, even if you didn't work out that morning, you were probably still going to rationalize eating that cake "I'll work out tomorrow..." or "It's just a LITTLE piece..." or whatever. It's your body wanting cake, and your brain going "how can I make this seem like a good idea."

I think that's what Dean is doing. He REALLY wants to save that baby, so he's like "we need one win!" and "if I can save this baby, that's important to the fight!" Even though it's just one baby, and in the grand scheme of things one baby SHOULDN'T matter that much...and he could very well of stayed behind and just helped the deputy escape with the baby and watched her drive off before helping Sam... but nope, he had to make sure that the baby escaped, it was important!

So, basically, I agree with you.

It could also be that she killed the mom and infected the dad on purpose so that he would die then drew Dean to her at the hospital by setting up that situation ... but that might be going a bit far

Yeah, that's way too intricate a plan.
supernutjapan
Oct. 1st, 2016 09:07 am (UTC)
I will definitely talk about this more going forward!!
awesome :)

borgmama1of5
Oct. 1st, 2016 09:36 am (UTC)
Man, there's this moment when Sam spots Dean where you can see him think "Is Dean dead?" I wonder just how often in their lives they've seen their brother's prone body and thought "is this the time...?"

Yes, you can see Sam hold his breath as he approaches Dean's body.

...how did Sam know what direction to walk in to find Dean!?!

I voted for the psychic link thing :)

...we already know that Dean was the lock in this metaphor, which means Sam was the key.

I love how you always take time to think through these contradictions and explain them to the rest of us!

Can you just bless a bunch of crisco? I would like to make some holy muffins for my anti-angel brunch.

Yeah, they totally gave up on holy oil being a rare commodity. That being said, I love your idea of holy oil muffins--Dean could make a batch and have them on hand to use as a peace offering when the angels are bothering them--one bite and they're blown somewhere else...

And that has been your SPN Theology Class with hells_half_acre.

And this is why they should hire you to keep track of the details and reason out the implications of what they offhandedly put in the scripts...

I don't think you're going to cure a supernatural decease through medical means in the next hour, guys...Dean's making sense...they could be waiting for the entire population of the world to die, while, meanwhile, if they just went out and shot the infected they find before they contaminate anyone else, they could put an end to it. It's hard to make decisions when you don't know what the stakes are...Sam is suddenly like "perhaps...our strategy of shooting through our problems without considering the consequences is a mistake...judging by what just happened when I shot through our last problem without considering the consequences..." And Dean is like "BUT IT'S MY TURN TO NOT CONSIDER THE CONSEQUENCES! THIS IS AN ILLTIMED EPIPHANY!"...So, it comes down to where you put your energy when it comes to saving - do you choose a single being to focus all your energy on? A baby. A certain victim. Your brother? Or do you focus on everyone - solve the route problem. Find the way to save the greatest amount of people?

The whole argument seemed so specious, you know? I appreciate you giving it some context, it makes it a little more palatable...

"...We're bound, Dean. We'll always be bound. You helped me. I helped you. No matter where I am. Who I am. We will always help each other."

And we get the initial proclamation of the Dean/Amara conflict of the season. As of where I am in my rewatch (11.14) they've kept it pretty consistent.

Love all your thinky thoughts! Looking forward to more!
hells_half_acre
Oct. 4th, 2016 06:22 am (UTC)
And this is why they should hire you to keep track of the details and reason out the implications of what they offhandedly put in the scripts...

I second the motion. ;)

The whole argument seemed so specious, you know? I appreciate you giving it some context, it makes it a little more palatable...

Yay! Me - Making specious things on SPN more palatable since 2008.

Love all your thinky thoughts! Looking forward to more!

Just put up another one! I was about to say that I was hoping to do the third on Thursday, since the show isn't on until next week - but then remembered that I'm going out that night - so who the heck knows! Might not happen until Friday or the weekend.
kailita
Oct. 10th, 2016 06:03 am (UTC)
Hooray! I'm so excited for the rewatches to return! :) I may hold off on commenting until I can rewatch them myself, now that they've gone up on Netflix as well. Looking forward to it!
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