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We're back from hiatus! WOoooooooT!

Okay, let's talk about le show. Uh... usual disclaimer: I'm not as think as you drunk I am. So, only correct me if I ask you to, or it's super duper important. All quote are approximate, etc.

EPISODE!


So, off the bat, I gotta admit that I was spoiled for this ep, because people don't tag their f*$&ing speculation, even when it's based on solid evidence. So, sadly, you won't get the genuine reaction of WHAT! I DID NOT SEE THAT COMING!! because I did, or rather, someone else did and then told me that I should probably expect that, and I responded with a "damn, that makes sense" and so I was expecting it. Ah well....

Still, GOOD EPISODE and I AM INTERESTED IN WHERE WE GO FROM HERE. Also, MY HEART IS A LITTLE BROKEN. So, still pretty standard genuine reactions to the series of events that we witness.

But, let's talk about this shizznet in order, because I made notes, goddamn it. NOTES!!!

Okay, I also went overboard on the wine tonight. Sorry. Sorry? Maybe you like me this way. I am perhaps only sorry to my friends, who have significantly less wine in their house after every Supernatural episode I watch with them.

Seriously though... episode...

I had never heard the opening song before. "Can't get the devil off my mind" was the only lyric I really caught - so, good choice show!

Then we get the really weird OOC Crowley+Christmas scene. BIZARRE. I swear I thought they just filmed that stuff in order to make a wake pre-Christmas promo - but nopers! That stuff actually happened. Only, it's a recurring nightmare of Rowenas, and this time Lucifer infiltrates it...or rather he DID, this tells us how it was that Lucifer got Rowena on board with his plan.

Then we get Sam in the cage, and he is super awesome. He's not going to be afraid and he's not going to give in, because he's betting on Dean rescuing him. Awwww... it makes me wonder about the years after S5 though (for his Soul anyway) when he made Dean promise not to rescue him, and so he didn't expect him to come... of course, back then, Sam didn't have to "hold out" because Lucifer was just furious and wanted to knock him around. Fun times? No. Not fun times. Poor Sam. *hugs Sam* *pets Sam*

Then we switch to Crowley and Rowena, and Crowley is like "B'ah! IN MY OWN HOUSE!" and Rowena is like "you want to stake your life on the Winchesters or Lucifer, because I know where my money's going..." ad Crowley is all like... "Dude, the WINCHESTERS - ALWAYS PUT YOUR MONEY ON WINCHESTERS!" only just inside his head, because we all know Crowley is knows where it's at. Outside, he's all like "Lucifer means death for us!" and Rowena is like "Na-uh, he's going to stop the darkness and then take the thrown of Heaven and I will be queen." And Crowley is like "oh man... no, that is not the way that is going to work."

I will say though, that I loved Rowena's line about how Lucifer was neither male or female, but was "perfection" - mainly because I love the idea of genderless angels, even though it's a rare event that the show indulges me on on the supject.

Back to Dean! Dean is trying to call Sam, and we get a funny voice message - it's cute. And then he tries to call Crowley - and then he has to pull over and throw up. And MAN, I'm one of those people who sympathetically get nausiated when other people throw up - and I had to sit there and think "it's fake, it's fake, it's fake, it's fake" so that I didn't throw up that glass of wine that I had JUST downed. Ugh. Please, Show, no more vomit. Cas goes to check out the smiting, because Dean can't - Dean tells him to run if Amara is still alive. Awww.

Then it gets better though, because Cas shows up and is adorable, checking Dean over - and then proclaims that he has smiting sickness and has a great line about how Lot's wife once turned to salt, it was so bad - and I love that version of Lot's wife turning to salt, rather than the Greek-myth-type version where it was because she looked back. (or Lot did...or WHATEVER.)

Back to Sam in the cage, where instead of torturing him, Lucifer is taking him on a vision quest down memory lane. And he takes him to his gangly teenage years. And once again the casting department does a good job of finding someone excellent.

Teenage Sam is talking to a girl about the Aztecs - and he mention that his family once went on a "working vacation" down to Mexico - COOL! I wonder how they got over the boarder with a trunk full of weapons. :P They were hunting Chupacabras. Yay! I like it when they use monsters that they canonically might have hunted as a family - because we know from previous mentions of chupacabras that they're (at least heavily implied) to be "easy" hunting.

Anyway, Sam's a cutie, and the girl thinks so too and tells him she just invited him to the park for make-outs. So Sam is like "oh, why didn't you just say so - MAKE-OUT TIME!" only, in his head - because he is cooler than I am.

Then Lucifer makes it all creepy by telling Sam that make-out Sam is the Same that Lucifer likes - with the "solid B on the tongue action" - GROSS LUCIFER! - But Lucifer's point is that Sam used to be the sort of hero who was suave and made out with girls. Um... Lucifer, I'm not sure if you were watching the same memory, but Sam was a dorky dork who was gushing about the aztecs and didn't get the hint that the girl was interested  in make-out time until she flat-out told him she was. That is not a suavy-suave dude, that is a cutie-dork... now, cutie-dorks can be heros too, but in a way where they don't say yes to the devil, because they are better than that.

Dean! He's in the bunker now, and can't find Sam... but then Crowley calls him and he's like "oops, your brother is in hell with Lucifer - does this remind you of a different and painful time in your life? Sorry." Only in different words.

Back to Sam, who is taken to Stull Cemetary, in Lucifer's pensieve. We get the ass-butt line again and some old footage of cutie S5 Sam, who was a little bit bigger - but a cutie. CUTIE! Geeeeeeeeez... I've been drinking, because SUCH A CUTIE! All Sam's are cuties.

Anyway, Lucifer tells Sam that he hates him because Sam is "sort of prissy" - and by that he means "too cute", I'm sure, because that's all I see. But Lucifer thinks Sam has gone soft.

Meanwhile, Cas goes to check out the smiting zone. He runs into Ambriel (spelling?! I thought she said Abriel, but then Ambriel, but maybe Anbriel? I really don't know... you can legit clear this up for me if you know.) Ambriel is a birth/death rate statistics angels. And she's asian! WOOT! More Asians on the TV please, they are one of the more severely underrepresented ethnic groups on the TV... and it's even more ridiculous given that this show films in Vancouver, which has a mostly Asian population.)

Anyyyyyyyway...we find out that Ambriel knows who Castiel is, but he's not well liked in Heaven at the moment, because the NICEST thing they say about him is that he's likely to kill other angels. Which SUCKS because Castiel just spent SEVERAL YEARS trying to stop civil wars so that angels would STOP GETTING KILLED. Poor Cas. *hugs Cas* *pets Cas*

Ambriel doesn't think there's anything funky up... until Castiel points out that it's the middle of the afternoon and it's pitch black where they are.

Meanwhile, Dean is in something I wrote down as "Kitilson NB" only with the L and the S as one letter. And he is leave a message for Cas to tell him that he's going to Hell... and then he goes to a door and gives a password, which is that "do da" song... and it's cute, but more importantly...

BILLIE THE REAPER!!! I love Billie. I mean, it doesn't hurt that she's super gorgous, but also I really love Reapers that appear to be true neutral and NOT AFFILIATED WITH HEAVEN OR ANGELS RAR!

We also find out that Sam told Dean EVERYTHING about the hospital experience sometime after Baby - because Dean knows about Billie and the fact that she's going to ensure that their next death is final. These days, Billie is helping out Crowley because it's "strange days" and she figures it's good to have the King of Hell owe you a favour. INTERESTING.

Back to Sam's walk in the pensieve, and we revisit Amelia and early S8 (ugh), and the show STILL isn't going with the psychotic-break theory, and insisting that Sam was legit honouring his and Dean's promise to move on... which... well, in this case, actually WORKS (oh god, I hate saying that) but it gives a way for the show to justify Sam not caring about letting the Darkness loose in the S10 finale, because he still feels guilty from the guilt-trip Dean gave him for honouring that promise instead of going with the "deep and abiding love" that usually prompted him to not rest until Dean was resurrected. But, I STILL think the first half of S8 was OOC with Sam, and I have it on good authority that so does Jared - so, boo-urns to this. BUT WHATEVER, this is a positive space, so I will commend them for explaining Sam's return to unrelenting signal mindedness and the placement of Dean over all else, even though S3, S4, and S9, should have driven home the idea that doing that was bad news bears.

This is all part of Lucifer's game to tell Sam that back in the DAY Sam was willing to die for his country - and WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THAT?! And that these days Sam is not strong enough to let people die for the world... which, is another whole meta on the romanticizing of war and sacrifice, in my opinion... but I am far too sleepy and drunk to even begin contemplating that tonight.

Crowley and Rowena are chatting it up over tea. Then Crowley sneaks out of the room...

Cas is being told by Ambriel how he's hated by his own kind and then that he's expendable in the opinion of the Winchesters. And OUCHERS. Because that's not true - Dean was fine with Cas going back to check the smiting zone because someone had to and Cas wasn't about to turn to salt! But, really, it's not about how the Winchester's treat Castiel that makes him believe this - it's how much Cas loves the Winchesters. He DOES think he's expendable, because if given the choice between YOUR life and the live of your super-duper loved ones, OF COURSE, you're going to decide that YOU are the expendable ones. Your super-duper loved ones are too super-duper and you don't want to live without them.

And that's the thing - I know a lot of Cas fans might see what happens in this episode as proof that Cas is unappreciated and mistreated by the Winchesters, but I think it's the opposite. Cas just loves them way too much to realize that they also love him way too much. It's the same old problem that Dean had with Sam in S2 - of COURSE Sam's life was more important than Dean's, Dean loved him more than he loved himself - it didn't matter how much Sam loved Dean... which he did, just as damn much as Dean loved Sam. But... yeah, anyway... sad times ahead for Castielatron.

(FYI: In my family if you want to give someone an affectionate nickname, you ADD syllables to their name... so, uh, that's what the deal with "Castielatron" was just then.)

Dean is in hell and he and Crowley have a great exchange where Crowley is like "Don't worry about Sam" and Dean responds with "Have you met me?!" Hehehe... but the gist of it is that they've got a witch-catcher device thingy.

Ambriel finds Amara, who is still alive and sucks Ambriel's soul out and then sucks all the "darkness" back into her - which was a cool effect. She then tells Cas that she ate Ambriel's "grace" and "spark" which is really neat, because I've often theorized that in order for the angels in SPN to function as they do, they need both grace AND a "soul-equivalent", so "spark" is a good name for a soul-equivalent if I do say so myself, so THEORY CONFIRMED IMHO.

Then Amara tells Castiel that he IS afraid to die, and that she doesn't understand God's interest in him... which is also cool, because it means that someone either has TOLD Amara that God has a special interest in Cas, or she learned it from Ambriel and it's what the angels believe, which might be why Castiel isn't beholden to the current "all angels return to heaven" rule, OR Amara just KNOWS. But, in Amara's opinion, God has horrible taste in men... awww. Then she sends Castiel away with a message... after she does so though, she seems to get a touch of the ol' smiting sickness herself, so, INTERESTING - is Amara not as invulnerable as she has led us to believe?!!? dun dun DUN.

Billie is reading a Sandman comic!!! With Death! YAY! If anyone knows which comic that was - let me know. I wrote down the title as "Death: The time of your life" but I didn't take time to read the individual panels.

Rowena already knows that Crowley snuck out to meet Dean, because she put a hex bag in his pocket. Meanwhile, Crowley has poisoned her tea, so all that doesn't matter. Dean gets the witch-catcher collar around her throat, and then Rowena has to do everything Crowley ays.

Meanwhile, back in the secondary cage, Sam won't say yes, even after the emotional manipulation. AND I AM SO PROUD OF HIM. *hugs Sam*

According to Lucifer, Michael has gone insane or something in the cage and spends all his time in the corner singing show-tunes and touching himself. Somehow, I doubt this is accurate... but whatevs.

Cas shows up to where Dean and Crowley are and shows them Amara's message, which are the words "I am coming" written across his chest from little brown nipple to little brown nipple. Crowly says "is that a threat?" and Dean is like "or a promise?" and Castiel legit looks at Dean like "you do realize the MULTIPLE LEVELS OF INNUENDO HERE, RIGHT?!!" but Dean apparently does not - or rather, this is no time for it!

Sam is still off saying no, and pointing out that it wasn't just Lucifer who beat the Darkness last time, it was him and 3 other archangels and God. Also, that once Lucifer beats the darkness, he's just going to start the apocalypse again, so boo to that - because whatever Sam chooses, humanity looses, so really, his MOST promising choice is to have faith in himself, his friends, and his family. Awww....

Then Sam is like "I'm ready to die, but not be your bitch" and BOOM.

Then Lucifer smacks him around, which makes Sam cry out in pain - which causes Dean and Cas to go running to him and get sucked into the cage - and HONESTLY CROWLEY - SOUND PROOF YOUR GODDAMN HELL ROOMS. But, whatever, at least Dean and Cas provide other people for Lucifer to wail on while Rowena mixes the spell to send him back to his main cage.

But, by that point, Lucifer's dug is emotionally manipulative claws into a new prey - which is Cas, who... yeah, is kind of ridiculously open to it, given that he's becoming more and more emotionally manipulatable over the seasons as he progressively becomes something between angel and man. And it's enough to pray on Castiel's fear and his lack of belief in his own worth...  so, yeah, I mean, I was spoiled by speculation, but even so, as soon as the bright flash happens, you can tell there's something different about Castiel.

Crowley announces that the team-up is over and they have to now get out of hell.

Dean takes Cas at his word that he's okay and will catch up, and takes off with Sam. And I think both of them must KNOW that Cas is acting weird, but then... it's Cas, so maybe acting weird from time to time is something he just does.

Dean and Sam both agree that having to deal with both the Darkness and the devil would have been a nightmare...which, you know... sucks, because that's what they've ended up with, even though they don't know it yet.

Crowley, meanwhile, is using his power over Rowena to find out why she treated him like crap as a kid - and it's because he was the batard son of a married man, before Rowena was powerful, and that the man left her despite telling her that he loved her - so, she took it out on Crowley, because she came to see love as a weakness. And it's a very well acted scene, of course, and a great ending speech to match Crowley's at the end of S8, and further that character-arc.

Then Cas shows back up and  reveals that he's Lucifer. Misha does a good job doing a Mark Pellegrino as Lucifer impression... with a little something weird thrown in, because Lucifer DOES change personalities slightly depending what body he's in - since he was always much more serious and not as sexual when he was in Sam. (even if we disregard The End as a manipulated vision rather than an alternate universe). Rowena is all giddy, and Lucifer of uses that to get close to her, confirm that she's the only one that could open the cage, and then kill her so that she can never open it again. Yikes. This leaves just Crowley as the only person who knows that Cas is Lucifer - but sadly, he's right there in Lucifer's clutches - and if there's anything Crowley is going to do, it's look out for Crowley... so, chances are, he's going to play ball in order to stay alive.

I legit don't know how they're going to get Cas back. Is Cas STILL inside the vessel? Or did Cas get sent to the cage in Lucifer's stead? Jimmy Novak isn't Lucifer's true vessel, is he even in the Campbell/Winchester line? Or is Lucifer going to burn through him faster than he burnt through Nick? Or is the show going to forget that Lucifer burns through vessels and have him miraculously survive somehow?

I hope Cas isn't away for too long - because that would be super sad for the Winchesters, who love their dorky angel friend a heap. Also, it'd just be super sad in general. But, if we're going on the patterns of the last few seasons, then at the very LEAST Cas might be absent until the finale, and at the most he might be absent well into next season - it depends how they've plotted it out. Is Cas like closing the gates or is he like the MoC?

Manno....

Anyway, I'm sure that there was a disturbance in the force tonight, as though thousands of destiel shippers cried out...

It's definitely a pretty huge start the back-end of the season. I mean, you've got the pre-biblical end times AND potentially the biblical end times happening SIMULTANEOUSLY. I guess they decided it was time to go big or go home. :P

So, let me know what you thought in comments, as per usual... ugh, negativity rules apply, so say something good for every bad thing, even if it's "I liked his shoes." Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd...forgive my spelling mistakes please, I do not have spell check and I am inebriated.

Cheers!

Comments

( 17 comments — Leave a comment )
borgmama1of5
Jan. 21st, 2016 08:17 am (UTC)
First off, when Lucifer started visiting Sam's memories--that was Colin Ford playing teen Sam! (I didn't catch that, sandymg pointed it out and verified it via IMDB.) Flashback to Stull was still heartbreaking, and I'm so glad they used actual footage, not trying to recreate it. And on to Amelia (ditto on clip used) and I actually had to cheer that someone (Andrew Dabb) tried to put that OOC Sam into some context. Not that it explained why Sam didn't look other than the 'we said we woudn't' line--but Lucifer shows how that failure has shaped Sam's single-mindedness last season to save Dean no matter what season.

Not sure if I'm explaining it right...it's like Lucifer put into words why Sam is the way he is now, which is a different Sam than in the first 5 years. Still don't think I'm explaining this right, so suffice it to say that I was viscerally pleased with that whole section of the story tonight!

Then Cas with doomed angel girl and Amara reabsorbing her darkness, and more pounding into Cas that he's expendable, but oh, she's not as invulnerable as she's projecting! She can be hurt! Strike now before she recovers!

Then the cage match in the Cage...I wondered why Lucifer went with just beating the crap out of Sam instead of doing some of his more inventive tortures as shown in Sam's visions. Unless Lucifer was too physical at this level of being there by spellwork and couldn't just reach in and pull out intestines and fun stuff without actually causing irreparable damage to his new vessel?

But big 3-way fight and Sam is faced with the ultimate dilemma--say yes or Dean is toast--but before he has to answer, Cas interferes. But I wonder what Sam was going to say???

Rescue, boys leave, Rowena's touching scene about why she hates Crowley--and after all this time, I finally had a tiny iota of sympathy for her...and then o my god Cas is now Lucifer and I just about fell off the couch (and I hadn't had any wine!) and as soon as Luci starts getting ready to give Rowena her reward I just knew it wasn't going to be what Rowena expected...and I still gasped when he broke her neck! And bravo Misha for acting another version of Cas! Bet he was excited to get to do this!

Ding dong, the witch is dead...so there's only Casifer and the Darkness left for the boys to worry about...

What. A. Masterpiece...completely flipping show around in season 11--amazing!!!
elani
Jan. 21st, 2016 08:19 am (UTC)
I just wanted to say I love your write ups, they're fantastic!

And this is the comic book: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death:_The_Time_of_Your_Life
hells_half_acre
Jan. 21st, 2016 08:30 am (UTC)
Thanks!! I'm glad you like my drunken blatherings!

And thanks for the link! That's awesome - I knew someone would come through for me. :)
hells_half_acre
Jan. 21st, 2016 08:25 am (UTC)
Not sure if I'm explaining it right...it's like Lucifer put into words why Sam is the way he is now, which is a different Sam than in the first 5 years. Still don't think I'm explaining this right, so suffice it to say that I was viscerally pleased with that whole section of the story tonight!

Yes! That's what I tried to say above too - but I obviously failed. I appreciated it for the same reasons you did - I still don't think it explains Sam THEN accurately, but I think it goes a long way to explain Sam NOW. Though, I'd still have preferred if they had explained Sam THEN better.

Then the cage match in the Cage...I wondered why Lucifer went with just beating the crap out of Sam instead of doing some of his more inventive tortures as shown in Sam's visions. Unless Lucifer was too physical at this level of being there by spellwork and couldn't just reach in and pull out intestines and fun stuff without actually causing irreparable damage to his new vessel?

I think he was just doing the soft approach first... but it could very well be that he didn't have THAT much power in the secondary cage.

But big 3-way fight and Sam is faced with the ultimate dilemma--say yes or Dean is toast--but before he has to answer, Cas interferes. But I wonder what Sam was going to say???

Well, he did say that he was prepared to die or see the people he loved die rather than say yes...so... if that were true, the answer would have been no!

Agreed with everything you say about the Crowley-Rowena-Lucifer scene! (Only, I wasn't surprised - but still a brilliantly acted scene, all 'round.)

Edited at 2016-01-21 08:35 am (UTC)
hells_half_acre
Jan. 21st, 2016 08:27 am (UTC)
First off, when Lucifer started visiting Sam's memories--that was Colin Ford playing teen Sam! (I didn't catch that, sandymg pointed it out and verified it via IMDB.)

Oh, and forgot to say OMG!!!! I DIDN'T EVEN RECOGNIZE HIM! He's SO BIG NOW! But that explains why he looked SO MUCH LIKE SAM - it's good ol' SAM CLONE! :) Seriously, now I want to rewatch just because I totally thought he was some new clone rather than the original! Boy is making me feel old here.
supernutjapan
Jan. 21st, 2016 04:04 pm (UTC)
Honey, your drunken reviews are a pleasure to read :D

YES, Sam was VERY cute this episode (as he usually is, of course, but those flashback scenes... Sam looked gorgeous. the boy that played Sam in the young!Sam scene was the original young!Sam, wasn't he? I've forgotten his name... the guy who was in The Dome? He's just grown up. I think. (Yup - Colin Ford - that's the one. Just read the comments above :D) Sam saying no - all those scenes were awesome <3

Cas saying yes was just NOPE. How could the writers do that to him?! After that terrible mistake in Season 6, and talking about changing in season 9... But I LOVED Misha playing Lucifer so I'll deal. I wonder if Sam and Dean are going to be able to call Cas back like Dean/Impala did Sam in Season 5.

Loved the Crowley/Rowena scene at the end and scary Lucifer killing off Rowena was very sad after that.

Awesome ending though.





Edited at 2016-01-21 04:07 pm (UTC)
hells_half_acre
Jan. 21st, 2016 07:42 pm (UTC)
Thanks! I'm glad you like my drunken reviews!

I have many the same feelings about Castiel as you do. It'll be cool to see him play a new part - but I'm also wondering what his train of thought was... Misha suggested at a convention recently that Cas was feeling unloved and expendable... but was that it? Or was it just a loss of hope in general? Or was it yet another foolish idea of how he could help save the world only to condemn it further? I don't know.

And I agree about the end too! :)
supernutjapan
Jan. 21st, 2016 11:07 pm (UTC)
I've seen a lot of people writing how Cas should be killed off because he's just taking time away from the real story (of Sam and Dean) and doesn't have a purpose in the show anymore, so to me, this almost seems like a message from the writers - "you as viewers think Cas is expendable and not needed - So we are going to give him something to be worthy of being in the show" OR possibly, "So, we've decided to get rid of him."
hells_half_acre
Jan. 22nd, 2016 12:19 am (UTC)
I think the people saying Cas should be killed off are a very small minority of the fandom. Castiel has become such a mainstay character that I don't see the writers ever getting rid of him. Nor do I think they are paying attention to any of those fan opinions.

Also, there's the fact that I have a distinct memory of Jensen saying once that just like there's no SPN without Sam and Dean, there's also no SPN without Cas.

I think the writers are using Cas as they would a third brother - each season since S2 is always set up with one "brother" in peril and the other trying to save them OR it's a season about the brother's being mad at each other. S2 Sam peril - S3 Dean peril - S4 mad and Sam peril - S5 still a little mad and both in peril - S6 Sam peril -S7 Sam peril - S8 Mad and then Sam peril - S9 Mad and then Dean peril - S10 Dean peril.

What I see them doing this season is realizing that people are getting a little tired of this sort of back and forth between Sam and Dean and they want the brothers to be a united front again, where neither is mad and neither is in peril... but, they also have this tradition of nearly ALWAYS having a family member in peril in order to drive the emotional plot (I mean, you could argue in S1 it was John who was in peril), so they're using Castiel this year, because that leaves Sam and Dean able to be a united front, while also having someone in peril.

I mean, really, they've been treating Castiel as a third brother since S6, when the brothers were mad at Cas, S7 Cas was barely in the show, but when he was they were annoyed because he was unreliable at best, so that could count as a "mad at" sub-plot, S8 had sub-plot Cas peril, S9 had subplot Cas peril, S10 had Cas largely as a united front with Sam while Dean was in peril... and now in S11, they're bringing Cas peril to the main-plot rather than having it as a subplot, because they want the brothers to be the united front.

That's the way I see it anyway - I could be wrong. *shrug*
supernutjapan
Jan. 22nd, 2016 12:56 am (UTC)
I'll be glad if that is the case :)

Oops, forgot to mention - that Lot's wife part was totally screwing with canon aye? Balthazar had the heavenly weapon that made Lot's wife turn to salt. It wasn't because of a heavenly smiting like we had here.

Edited at 2016-01-22 12:59 am (UTC)
hells_half_acre
Jan. 22nd, 2016 01:44 am (UTC)
Yes, I discussed that briefly in a comment below - it COULD be explained away by saying that they used the weapon to smite Sodom and Gomarrah - and Lot's wife turned to salt because she was too close to the epicenter. So, it COULD still work if you believe that the target wasn't Lot's Wife, but the cities.. which I THINK makes more sense to the story, though, in truth my biblical knowledge is a little sketchy when it comes to some of the old-testament stuff.
supernutjapan
Jan. 22nd, 2016 02:23 am (UTC)
I just looked back at 6-3 and from what Balthazar says there, it sounds like the stone was used directly on Lot's wife. And Balthazar did actually use it directly on an angel without any influence to the environment around them. Dean and Sam didn't get sick from the smiting and they were right there in the building.

In the RL Bible, the reason Lot's wife was turned to salt was not just because she was dilly dallying against orders but because she still wanted that "evil" life that she had in the evil city. That was the religious reason. Of course, scientifically, the fact that she stayed too close to the epicenter might be the reason. It could have been like a nuclear blast or volcano. Someone turning to salt reminds me of how those people by Mt. Vesuvius turned to stone.

So, it would make sense religiously that she was punished directly, while scientifically, it would make sense to say she just happened to stay too close to the epicenter. They went with the religious reason in Season 6, then changed it to the scientific reason in Season 11. Bla. What do you expect, aye? They can never get this stuff right.
hells_half_acre
Jan. 22nd, 2016 02:37 am (UTC)
Ah, question answered then - indeed a canon-continuity error. Ah well, like I said somewhere in this comment section: The Carver era of SPN seems to not really care about canon-continuity that much, which is really probably my major criticism of it.

And thanks for the biblical reminder - I honestly couldn't remember the story well enough to remember WHY she was turned to salt when she looked back, or why it was important for them not to look back, or why that rule was made in the first place.

I know the greek myth with the dude getting his girl from the underworld better - even though for the life of me I can't remember their names. :P Anyway, that one also has to do with looking back and getting punished for it, which is why I equate the two stories in my head.
khek
Jan. 24th, 2016 02:44 pm (UTC)
I think that makes perfect sense! Iw was getting repetitive watching the yo-yo of 'who's in peril at the end of this season'? That's not to say it won't still happen, but it gives them a bit more wriggle room. And a triangle is stronger than a line. :)

I still wonder why they keep bringing Adam into the picture. No one talked about him this episode, but he was in the clip of Stull cemetery, and Lucifer did mention Michael. I wonder if they'll do something with that eventually.

Love your write up, as always!
hells_half_acre
Jan. 24th, 2016 08:59 pm (UTC)
Agreed.

I'm a little torn on the Adam issue. On the one hand, it'd be nice for them to put that issue to bed so that fandom can shut-up about it. :P On the other hand, I don't want them to contradict my headcanon.

But, we'll see! I guess. I think if they're revisiting Lucifer and the cage, they'll eventually have to bring Michael into things - and if they bring Michael into things, that HAS to bring up Adam.

Glad you enjoyed the write-up!
shadowsong26
Jan. 22nd, 2016 12:10 am (UTC)
Oh man. This episode…there’s a lot to talk about, but I’m not sure I have much to say (even though I normally would, given the topics covered) because I was completely and totally unspoiled for the last 90 seconds. My brain still seems stuck on ‘wtf’ ‘how does that even work’ ‘but vessel canon’ ‘but omg’. I’ll probably need to rewatch before saying anything smart. Although, this is me, I always end up saying more than I plan…

I thought the Christmas stuff was just for the promo, too…and then came the ginormous mood whiplash after, with Sam and Lucifer in the Cage.

This episode was a major Crowning Moment of Awesome for Sam, IMO. But the main bit comes later.

I loved the voice message. And Dean and Cas talking about investigating Amara and the smiting sickness.

Re: the Lot’s wife bit, I don’t think it actually contradicts the Greek-myth-type story? Like, instead of running away from the blast zone, she stopped/looked back and was exposed to too much radiation, for lack of a better word, and turned into salt before anyone could save her. It does make me wonder how that meshes with previous SPN canon on Lot’s wife, though, since that was one of the weapons Balthazar had in S6…

Teen!Sam was adorkable, yes.

Also, I think I liked Lucifer here better than last episode? Like, he wasn’t all the way back to the quieter/creepier S5!Lucifer I prefer, but was more of a middleground between that and Hallucifer. Especially because he went back to…Lucifer didn’t really lie in S5? He just presented the truth very carefully to get people to react the way he wanted. And he seemed to be back to that tactic again this episode, and I like watching villains operating like that, when they do it well.

I thought Ambriel was adorable and it made me very sad when Amara ate her. Though it’s not much of a surprise, since I think her story hit a lot of the same notes as Teeny BAMF Pretty-Eyed Sheriff back in the season premiere? Ah, well.

Totally agreed re: Billie.

You know, Sam might have told Dean about her before Baby? Because he probably had to explain something of what he was up to/how he found the cure, even if he didn’t mention he got infected/was his own guinea pig…

Agreed with all you said about the Amelia bit and Lucifer putting it in context.

And about Cas’s mental state in the last third of this episode, it makes things make a lot more sense.

(Re: Castielatron: at first, it read like a ship portmanteau for him and Metatron and my brain hurt DX but then you explained and I felt better)

And, yes, like I said, this episode was a MAJOR CMoA for Sam. His refusal speech was beautiful and amazing and wonderful and yes.

I still think Michael was the one reaching out to Sam in Baby, so I agree Lucifer’s probably wrong there. But we shall see. (It also pleased me that one of the other Archangels finally acknowledged Raphael, if only to say ‘he’s dead.’)

And now for the sharp turn into WTF JUST HAPPENED.

I mean--I do like this development. It’s a very interesting place for the story to go, and Misha!Lucifer is freaking awesome. Or the bit of him we saw so far was. On the other hand, how does that work? I mean, I bought it with Hael in the S9 premiere, because Cas was human then, but can there really be two angels in the same vessel? I mean, I think Cas does have the right to sign this body over to someone else (since Jimmy’s gone) but how does it work? Plus, like…how long can said body contain both Cas and Lucifer, or even Lucifer alone (if Cas has been straight-up destroyed, which I hope not)? Is he going to start getting radiation burns all over the way Nick did? Or melting like Levi!Cas? Are we going to start finding a bunch of bloodless demon bodies? I mean, I’m trying not to sound too negative, because I am pretty fascinated by where this could go, but at the same time...I feel like it’s rewriting ‘this is how vessels work’ canon. But…yeah, we’ll see where it goes.

Oh, right, Rowena and Crowley are there, too. Um. Don’t have much to add to what you said about their bit/her death.

Anyway. Definitely intrigued for where we might go from here, if still a little poleaxed and not sure how this doesn’t break the established rules of the universe. But I’m looking forward to seeing where this goes!
hells_half_acre
Jan. 22nd, 2016 12:37 am (UTC)
Re: the Lot’s wife bit, I don’t think it actually contradicts the Greek-myth-type story? Like, instead of running away from the blast zone, she stopped/looked back and was exposed to too much radiation, for lack of a better word, and turned into salt before anyone could save her. It does make me wonder how that meshes with previous SPN canon on Lot’s wife, though, since that was one of the weapons Balthazar had in S6…

Right, yes, I was wondering the same re: s6. I'm going to look it up - it was just called "lot's salt" and could turn humans into salt - and was a weapon of heaven. So, who the heck knows? Maybe that's the weapon they used on a grand scale to smite Sodom and Gomorrah and that's why it turned Lot's wife into salt too when she looked back and paused too long.

And you're right, I just couldn't remember WHY the angels told them not to look back. But, if there was no reason given like in the greek-myth where the dude can only take his lover out of the underworld if he doesn't look at her while they leave... that's sort of what I was thinking of, that it was a RULE of them leaving, rather than just a warning not to dilly dally. But it could have very well have been a warning not to dilly dally.

He just presented the truth very carefully to get people to react the way he wanted. And he seemed to be back to that tactic again this episode, and I like watching villains operating like that, when they do it well.

Agreed!

You know, Sam might have told Dean about her before Baby? Because he probably had to explain something of what he was up to/how he found the cure, even if he didn’t mention he got infected/was his own guinea pig…

True!

(Re: Castielatron: at first, it read like a ship portmanteau for him and Metatron and my brain hurt DX but then you explained and I felt better)

Oh god! Yeah, I didn't mean that at all. My other option would have been something like Castielery.

I still think Michael was the one reaching out to Sam in Baby, so I agree Lucifer’s probably wrong there.

Ooo, that'd be interesting. The only thing that prevents me from believing that is the fact that John said "I never could fool you" - which would indicate that he had tried before. Though... now that I think about it, Michael was in the cage with Sam too - so that argument doesn't hold up! I was just thinking that Sam had never had contact with Michael in the show, but that's just of what we've seen - so, I take it all back and I stick with my original "Ooo, that'd be interesting."

Is he going to start getting radiation burns all over the way Nick did? Or melting like Levi!Cas? Are we going to start finding a bunch of bloodless demon bodies? I mean, I’m trying not to sound too negative, because I am pretty fascinated by where this could go, but at the same time...I feel like it’s rewriting ‘this is how vessels work’ canon. But…yeah, we’ll see where it goes.

Yes, I too am worried about them ignoring canon, since the Carver era doesn't have a good track record for respecting it (*cough*Reapers*cough*)... so, I'm hoping we'll see the consequences of Lucifer not being in his true vessel. And we did see, in S9, that you could have multiple beings in one body, because we had Sam, Gadreel, and Crowley inside of Sam for a hot minute there. Now, I think in order to walk around with that many people in a body, one would have to either be powerful enough to assume control, or willingly relinquish control. Which is probably what has happened with Cas... unless he and Lucifer switched places and Cas is now stuck with Michael in the original cage. Which may indeed be the case, depending one what you think Lucifer's reasons were for killing the only person who could have opened it.

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