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Quick Reaction: 9x21 King of the Damned

I don't even know what my emotions are doing...

This week, the TV schedule was all messed up in my area of the world, and the show isn't airing until 10:30pm. So, instead of going to my friends place and drinking and watching the show - I stayed home and tried to watch it on livestream on the east-coast feed.

This means that A)I'm not drunk for once, B)This post is appearing WAY earlier in the day than usual, and C)I missed five minutes of the show because the livestream cut out partway through. I was able to piece together approximately what happened in those five minutes.. but I'll still completely own up to it when I get to that part of my reaction. D) You still get song lyrics for the cut, because I listened to my iPod while I typed the first half of this reaction post.

Now to the episode!

So, we begin in Scotland in 1723... where we meet back up with Gavin, I knew exactly who he was and where this was going as soon as I saw that we were in Scotland in 1723.... and sure enough, Abaddon shows up and kidnaps our hapless doomed Scottish boy.

Then, we get to the best part of the episode, where we enter a bar where some dude is trying to tell a funny story about seagulls and a pizza - and it's obviously one of those stories where you had to be there, because he's laughing too much at his own jokes... and then before he can get to the punchline someone interrupts him. I HATE IT WHEN THAT HAPPENS. And that someone interrupts them by mentioning that he's been talking to Metatron, and we discover that all these guys hanging out at the bar and telling funny stories about seagulls are angels!!! AND I LOVE THEM. Seriously, I know want to know what that story was about the seagulls - I am now in love with this awkward comedian angel who laughs at his own jokes and doesn't realize he's telling a story where you had to be there... and MAN, I want the whole story about how these angels are adjusting and what their lives were like beforehand - and I actually want to know what the hell that story about the seagulls and the pizza was... and...and... this is where my best friend would yell "STOP FALLING IN LOVE WITH INCONSEQUENTIAL BACKGROUND CHARACTERS!" And I would say, "You might as well ask me to stop breathing, because I'd have to be dead!"

ANnnnnnnnnnnnyway... obviously I don't need alcohol to get off track.

Braggy McBraggerson gets nabbed in an alley, because loose lips sink ships.

Then we join up with the boys who are pulling up to a warehouse somewhere... and we discover that Cas has made himself a Commander of an army. Commander Cas has a nice ring to it. But we get hugs on arrival! Slightly awkward hugs! And I'll never get over how small the boys always make Misha look. Seriously... it's hilarious and way too adorable for words.

Cas wants Dean and Sam to interrogate the braggy angel... and yeah.... the fact that Dean's like "what makes you think I don't want to do it?" is like THE BIGGEST RED FLAG. Seriously, I'm kind of angry at Cas for even bringing him in, tbh.

Then we go to Crowley's command centre, where I discover that he still has that attractive demon in his employment! Yay! The guy needs to change his facial hair, but I really like the look of him otherwise... ...and cue my best friend once again yelling at me in my mind....

But even attractive demons can double-cross you! And that's exactly what attractive-demon has done with Crowley... because Abaddon has infiltrated his penthouse.

And then we get the best line from Crowley EVER... and damn but I wish I could remember exactly how it went, but something like "No one in the history of torture knows torture like the torture that I'm going to torture you with..." So awesome.

Then we get a conversation that I missed a little bit of because of the stream cutting out... but basically Abaddon reveals that she's got Gavin as her bargaining chip. Which, ironically, is SORT of the context that we last saw Gavin in. Though, this DOES mess with the timelines, because if Gavin doesn't go down with that ship.... this is why Supernatural has ALWAYS worked on closed time loops... but we'll get to that....

Anyway, Abaddon correctly calls out the fact that Crowley still has a bit of sentimentality left after his human blood addiction and can't stand to see his son tortured and killed. Again though, I wonder if she COULD kill him... closed time loops, people!

Cut to the interrogation of the braggy angel - who we discover is named Ezra (which is one of my favourite biblical names, btw... I'm kind of sad they used it for a throwaway character). Sam saves the day here, because he recognizes that 1)Dean is a LITTLE bit unhinged lately, and 2)They don't actually have to use torture to get the information they need. Sam recognizes exactly what kind of personality Ezra has and exploits it - Ezra needs to be more important than he is, Ezra NEEDS to have something to brag about.... so, Sam just let's him brag, calling into question each part of the story he wants more information on so that Ezra will tell him more to prove that he's not lying... Dean gets with the program fast.

It was an interesting choice to film it the way they did, but I really liked the choice... with the viewer as Ezra's eyes. It was kind of hilarious and kind of great.

We learn from Ezra that there's a portal to Heaven that Metatron can open at will wherever he wants. Also, we learn that Metatron is assembling both an elite guard in heaven and ground troops on earth... for what reason, we don't know.

Speaking of people who are a little slow... Gavin is being told that his no-good alcoholic dead-father is now King of Hell after selling his soul for 3 more inches of willy. I actually kind of find it hilarious, because guys with longer penises are more likely to have boys... so, for all Gavin knows, that demon deal is the reason he exists right now! :P

Oh, I think I jumped ahead there... because really the scene was just about introducing the idea that Gavin was in the future or something. I was actually surprised he recovered as quickly as he did to Abaddon inflicting extreme pain and making him loose like a half-litre of blood.

Anyway, back at Cas HQ, Ezra is inexplicably dead!

Cas asks Dean and Sam about it, and they're like "it wasn't us! You have a mole!"

AND THEN MY STREAM CUT OUT FOR FIVE MINUTES. (But from what I gathered, Cas got contacted by Gadreel who wanted to meet - and then when he went to the meeting spot he was attacked? And Sam and Dean were milling about HQ still for some reason and Crowley must have gotten in touch because Dean was thinking about the blade...)

..and then Dean has a weird flashback thingy about the blade and how it jacks him up. And Sam has to clap to get his attention when Dean's phone rings.

Crowley calls to tell him that he has Abaddon... and then the camera pans out and we see that Abaddon is right by Crowley and obviously in on the whole thing...

Crowley sends the boys to a graveyard to get the first blade, which he's stuffed inside of a fresh corpse. SUPER GROSS! And there's a hell hound guarding it. So, this is where I'm actually going to complain about something (which is usually not my thing but...)... um, this scene was pointless? It seemed to JUST be a gag-scene to allow for the juxtaposition of the boys running from a hell hound and Crowley and his son sitting by a fire reading papers...and Crowley calling the hell hound Juliet in a sweet voice... and yeah, it's not... there's no other point to it, and when you isolate a gag that much, it basically just points neon signs to the fact that it's a gag and takes away from the gag. It would have made WAY more sense for the hell hound to be sent by another demon trying to get the blade or something, like, maybe Abaddon has planned to kill them in the graveyard and get the first blade so that Dean couldn't use it against her - THAT would have made sense, and then Sam and Dean could have killed the hound or something or SOMETHING... or they should have just taken this scene out completely, because there's no point to it...and yeah, I mean, I just... it's... a writing critique I guess, and it must be a pet-peeve of mine, I guess, for me to be this annoyed by it. I just think that every word and action you put down on paper should have a reason to be there, and "for a gag" isn't a good enough reason.

Anyway, Sam correctly insists that he be the one to handle the blade until Dean needs it - Dean tells him he can handle it, but yeah...

My question is, why don't the boys ever bring rubber gloves with them when they do stuff like this? They should get those really long ones that farmers use for birthing calves.

They get the blade, and then Crowley calls them to tell them the location... and he says the code word! Poughkeepsie! And Uh, it's not exactly subtle because he has to repeat it twice, because Dean is being thick....

And then Dean doesn't even tell Sam! Noooooooo.............

Cut to Castiel meeting with Gadreel. Gadreel tells him that he had nothing to do with the attack on Castiel. Gadreel goes on about how he's trying to be a man of his word and has honour and whatnot, and Castiel is like "um, is this is what happened to you when you messed up in the past - because I have to say, you really have a knack for screwing up your life." Only in less words than that. The Castiel tries to convince Gadreel to be HIS mole. Interesting... my wonder is how much Metatron knows about all this? Is Castiel still playing into his plans or is he being a good spanner in the works?

When Dean and Sam get to the hotel where Crowley is. Dean tells Sam that Crowley told him there were demons and that Sam should check out the basement while Dean checks out the first floor... so, Dean knows it's a trap, and his response is to send Sam to the basement to keep him safe, while Dean walks into the trap by himself.

I can't help but feel that this is less Dean being overly confident because of the Mark of Cain mojo and more a symptom of the current brother troubles - because if Sam can live without Dean, but Dean can't live without Sam... Dean's willingness to walk into certain death makes a LOT of sense. Dean believes that Sam won't shed a tear for him, but meanwhile Dean can't live without Sam... so, yeah, keep Sam safe and don't care about yourself, because you don't have to worry about upsetting Sam by dying because Sam doesn't care. Or, at least, that's what I think Dean's frame of mind is at the moment...that's in no way what I think the situation ACTUALLY is.

So, while Sam's safely in the basement for no reason - Dean enters the penthouse and sees Crowley. He dispatches one demon, but Abaddon still manages to throw him against the wall, but then makes the mistake of monologing about how she's going to kill Dean slowly and then kill Gavin and then kill Crowley and... all this gives Dean enough time to realize that the Mark of Cain gives him super powers and he's able to resist Abaddon's demon magic thingy and walk towards her in a wind-machine...

And we find out when she throws him into the wall again and he drops the blade that he can actually ACCIO that sucker... (for you non-HarryPotter fans...that means he can use telekinesis to have that sucker fly back into his hand.)

Anyway, Sam runs into the windmachine room just as Dean gets a handle of the situation again and TOTALLY STABS ABADDON!!!

WHAT?!?! (I'll return to this later)

And then that's not enough, because he's also got to beat her dead corpse!! SO MUCH ANGER! And Sam is like "DEAN! THAT'S EXCESSIVE! AND THOSE SQUISHY NOISES ARE GROSS!" Or maybe that was me... anyway, Dean stops.

Then Crowley let's it slip in front of Sam that Dean knew it was a trap the whole time, and Sam is *angry face* and Dean is *don't angry face me!*

Then we get a conversation between Crowley and Dean and Sam, which they're having like...15 feet away from Gavin, but he apparently can't hear them? Anyway, Crowley doesn't want to send Gavin back in time, because his ship goes down and he dies, and Sam is like "THIS SHOW WORKS ON CLOSED TIME LOOPS! CLOSED! DO YOU WANT ANOTHER 'MY HEART WILL GO ON' UNIVERSE WHERE I LOSE ROCK PAPER SCISSORS?! DO YOU!?!?!" Or words to that effect, and Crowley is like, "Noo....?" but then asks if he can say goodbye before Dean and Sam take Gavin to figure out how to send him back in time... and he TRICKS THEM! And disappears with Gavin! Oh noes!

But my question is: WHY do they let Crowley live?! I don't understand the logic there? Is it just that they want to know whose in charge of hell? Do they figure that they can control him? Have they forgotten that he's done a whole bunch of horrible things? I'm so confused!

Crowley tells Gavin about the ship going down and then turns him loose (hopefully with some money and not just his weird 18th century clothes)... and Gavin tries to go in for a hug, because apparently his father loved him after all, but Crowley is like "Hugging is for the weak! Goodbye forever!" And Gavin is like, "you're like the worst Dad ever, but fine."

Then we get the brother fight in the car, where Dean is like "I sent you to the basement because I knew I could handle it - the Blade makes me super calm and awesome." And Sam is like "It makes you SOMETHING, but I'm not sure that it's that awesome." And Dean is like "I HAVE NOW FORMED A CODEPENDENT RELATIONSHIP WITH THE BLADE!"

And Sam is like "Maybe we should put the blade really far away from you, because you are clearly going insane."

And Dean says, "No."

And well, that's one way to end a fight, I guess.

So, things that I had to come back to:
1)With Gavin alive, what does this mean for the timeline?! Are things going to go into an alternate universe now? If Gavin doesn't get on the boat, then Bobby can't find his ring and use him against Crowley in Weekend at Bobby's - which I think was just a distraction for the fact that Sam and Dean were in Scotland?! So, maybe the plan can just work differently somehow?! I don't know... but I'm confused as to what this open time loop means...because the mythology of Supernatural clearly states that this will fuck everything up!

2)Abaddon is dead! So, whose the big bad for the finale? Just Metatron?! Crowley?! GAVIN?!! DEAN?!!? I have to say, Abaddon's death seemed sudden to me, and I guess not what I was hoping for... I mean, I knew as soon as they brought the Blade into play that Dean would most likely kill Abaddon, but part of me wanted her to be hoisted on her own petard first - because fundamentally, I felt, that her style of governing hell wasn't going to be a good one... so I kind of wanted her to reap what she sowed, you know? Rather than just being ended without seeing the folly of her ways....

I think that's it...

Next week looks really weird. I'm not sure what the heck is going on there.

I'm very concerned about where Dean is headed. Also, now that he's killed Abaddon, is he going to fulfill his promise to Cain and kill him next?!? Or will Sam have to call on Cain to somehow rescue Dean from himself?! I definitely think that this is going to be a scenario where Sam has to figure out how to rescue Dean...

So, let me know your thoughts and whatnot in comments...  standard rules apply.

Comments

( 48 comments — Leave a comment )
katsheswims
May. 7th, 2014 04:13 am (UTC)
I was totally thinking that it wouldn't matter if Gavin stayed in the future because he and everyone he interacted with if he got on that ship would die--so there would be no impact whether he died on the ship or just wasn't there anymore. But you're right about him having to be dead for Bobby to have been able to call up his ghost in S6...I guess he can still be sent back at some point? I did enjoy Gavin though. (Except that painful/bloody scene I couldn't watch.)

I also thought Crowley's torture line was clever.

I'm not sure what they're setting up the finale for, but I have a feeling it's going to be Dean in some way by the end. They still have to deal with Metatron, and I'm hoping that arc will be dealt with this season. Angel-civil-war has been going on for a looong time now. (Though if we got to see departed hunters in Heaven dealing with this I wouldn't mind it going on some more, but I've come to accept Show won't be going there...)

I'm also unsure as to why they didn't kill Crowley. Also I'm not sure why Sam said they could save the blade until they needed it for Crowley. The blade was only special because it could kill Knight's of Hell (and there aren't anymore--except Cain I guess). Crowley is a regular crossroads demon who has worked up the ranks. As far as they (and we know) he could be killed by the regular demon-killing-knife or the Colt(and I don't remember what has happened to that right now...). The blade can kill regular demons, but there's no reason they need it now. I'm hoping Sam does hide it, but I'm not sure how Dean would react if he did.

Edited at 2014-05-07 04:16 am (UTC)
hells_half_acre
May. 7th, 2014 04:20 am (UTC)
Angel-civil-war has been going on for a looong time now. (Though if we got to see departed hunters in Heaven dealing with this I wouldn't mind it going on some more, but I've come to accept Show won't be going there...)

Once again, we agree on all points.

I'm also unsure as to why they didn't kill Crowley. Also I'm not sure why Sam said they could save the blade until they needed it for Crowley. The blade was only special because it could kill Knight's of Hell (and there aren't anymore--except Cain I guess.) Crowley is a regular crossroads demon who has worked up the ranks. As far as they (and we know) he could be killed by the regular demon-killing-knife or the Colt(and I don't remember what has happened to that right now...).

Good point! They don't need the blade anymore at all, except that it's just ANOTHER one of their demon-killing instruments. But yeah, we've seen no evidence that Crowley can't be killed with the knife - Azazel and Lilith couldn't be killed with the knife though... so who knows.

The colt was lost against Lucifer back in 5x10, I believe - they never got it back after that. So, it's just gone. We only briefly saw it in Frontierland, but it stayed in the past then.
katsheswims
May. 9th, 2014 03:16 am (UTC)
Oh, okay. I thought the Colt was lost when they went up against Lucifer mid-way through season 5, but I haven't re-watched the later seasons so I wasn't sure if I was not recalling something. (I've re-watched the earlier seasons much more because I've gotten others into the series that way.)

And good point, the regular knife may not work on Crowley...he does have the fancy red smoke instead of black like most demons, right? That could be a sign of high power. I think even Lilith's was just plain black, and I don't think we ever saw Alistair's. And Azazel's was black too...
hells_half_acre
May. 9th, 2014 03:24 am (UTC)
Yeah, Crowley's is the only one we've seen where the smoke is coloured - so it might be an indication (like Lilith, Azazel and Alistair's different eyes) that the knife wouldn't be enough.
ramblin_rosie
May. 7th, 2014 04:19 am (UTC)
I am SO hung up on that open loop. They made too big a deal of it for it NOT to have major consequences--but I can't sort it out past Bobby not being able to get out of his deal (at least, not the same way). Does that mean Crowley keeps Dick Roman from killing Bobby, given that he's just made a big deal in The Ep That Didn't Happen about not collecting early? Or does that mean there's no way for Sam to complete the second trial because Bobby's in Hell due to a valid contract? Or are things going to unravel in ways we can't foresee? AUGH!

And yeah, Sam is going about things totally the wrong way if he wants Dean to understand that he really is worried about the effects of the Mark. Dean's love language is action, but Sam's words and deeds are sending seriously conflicting messages. I keep thinking the writers *have* to be building up to Sam having to do something drastic to pull Dean back from the brink of doom... but what that will be, and how Gavin ties into it all, I haven't the foggiest.
hells_half_acre
May. 7th, 2014 04:30 am (UTC)
Does that mean Crowley keeps Dick Roman from killing Bobby, given that he's just made a big deal in The Ep That Didn't Happen about not collecting early? Or does that mean there's no way for Sam to complete the second trial because Bobby's in Hell due to a valid contract? Or are things going to unravel in ways we can't foresee? AUGH!

My thoughts exactly! And last time someone left an open loop, the boys lost their memory of any reality different to the one they were in - but I don't see them going that route, because the storylines are too epic at the moment! I don't know what's going to happen!!

Unless Supernatural is STILL working on a closed loop and the closed loop is that sometime next season, Gavin gets sent back to that ship in 1723.

Dean's love language is action, but Sam's words and deeds are sending seriously conflicting messages. I keep thinking the writers *have* to be building up to Sam having to do something drastic to pull Dean back from the brink of doom... but what that will be, and how Gavin ties into it all, I haven't the foggiest.

Again, my thoughts exactly... it'll certainly be an interesting final two episodes. Part of me thinks that we might not get our answer until the fall and season 10 though... :S
quickreaver
May. 7th, 2014 04:34 am (UTC)
Hmmm, I dunno about Dean's "love language" being action, because Dean has a habit of punching people (including Sam, whom he arguably loves) out of anger and frustration. I think it's more accurate to say that Dean is a doer and Sam is a thinker. Dean acts, then considers that action's consequences, whereas Sam tries to think things through first.

I don't know what's worse: Sam's lack of clarity when he talks to Dean, or Dean's outright lying to keep Sam safe.
hells_half_acre
May. 7th, 2014 04:39 am (UTC)
Haha, I think she just meant that Dean "talks" through action - He understands through action... You can't tell Dean that you love him, you have to show him. which is why Sam's words not being clear in addition to being WORDS is a major problem!!!

I think Dean outright lying to keep Sam safe is the problem they keep circling back to this season, whereas Sam's lack of clarity when he talks to Dean is a problem that I'm not even sure Sam realizes that they have... so, in a way, I think THAT might be the bigger problem, because you have to know a problem before you can solve it.
ramblin_rosie
May. 7th, 2014 04:47 am (UTC)
Yeah, sorry, that may have been a bit of Christianese on my part. :D But Dean does prefer to show his love through action, too, whether that's by cooking and coddling or by throwing himself into the line of fire--and I guess a lot of it comes down to the fact that he never has fully bounced back from that mute spell after Mary died.
As for Sam not even realizing there's a problem... shoot, there's a ton of stuff about the year with Amelia that Sam apparently thinks he's told Dean, that the audience knows because we're privy to his flashbacks, but all Dean's heard is, "I didn't look for you because I hit a dog and met a girl." And that's part of why that conversation in "The Purge" hurt him so deeply--it's yet more seeming confirmation that Sam doesn't love him. And Sam doesn't realize that he didn't say what he actually meant, never mind that Dean's taking it the way he is.
hells_half_acre
May. 7th, 2014 05:01 am (UTC)
I don't even think Sam explained that year with Amelia to the AUDIENCE very well. :P But yeah, he definitely didn't explain it to Dean well at all.

Someday, even if it's two seconds before they die... it'd be nice if these boys would learn to communicate. ;)
ramblin_rosie
May. 7th, 2014 05:03 am (UTC)
I vote for a good old-fashioned mind meld. :P
quickreaver
May. 7th, 2014 05:29 am (UTC)
I don't even think Sam explained that year with Amelia to the AUDIENCE very well. :P

HEAR HEAR. I have a funny feeling the writers left it open-ended so that they could utilize the vagueries later. Carver seems to do this a lot. Boo.
hells_half_acre
May. 7th, 2014 05:34 am (UTC)
Yeah, I just think they should have actually addressed it in the season. I've contemplated writing two separate "fix-its" for it...but never have. It drives me bananas.
quickreaver
May. 7th, 2014 05:42 am (UTC)
I still may write something from that "lost year." It needs fleshing out! And maybe some Purgatory fics too. Man, there were stories left untold there! I loved Benny, and thought he and Dean had great chemistry. Esp. when Cas was thrown into the mix.
hells_half_acre
May. 7th, 2014 05:51 am (UTC)
Agreed completely. I think part of the problem post-Kripke is that the showrunners don't know how to slow down and explore the stories they already have, they're always rushing too quickly to the next thing.

I mean, even S7, which I often accuse of being too slow - it's not so much that it was ALL too slow - it was more that they made the boring story too slow and the interesting stories too fast.
quickreaver
May. 7th, 2014 05:23 am (UTC)
Eh, I disagree with the guess that Sam thinks he told Dean things that he really didn't (re. Amelia); it's just as likely Dean started to hear what he wanted to hear. There's no proof either way, and me being a Sam!girl, I just can't be as quick to absolve Dean of responsibility there.

(Truthfully? I think Sam's lack of clarity is the writers fabricating drama. Just as I have to wonder if Dean would really be lying as much as he does to Sam, under "normal" circumstances.)

What Sam 'says' and what Dean 'hears' is neither guys' fault. But I have to wonder why Sam has to learn Deanspeak to communicate with his brother, but Dean doesn't have to learn Samspeak to understand Sam. I've heard it said that Sam isn't communicating in a way Dean understands, but is Dean even really trying to understand? I don't think so. He has his mind made up, and if he has to consider that maybe, just maybe, he might be wrong about his life philosophy, it calls into question EVERYTHING. And that's a scary place for a guy to be in!
hells_half_acre
May. 7th, 2014 05:32 am (UTC)
Very true. You'd think after all these years, Dean would learn to speak "Sam" just as much as Sam would learn to speak "Dean."

Dean's speech to Sam in 8x23, I think, taught Dean that Sam needs words to understand things... or at least, I would hope it did. I guess that's why I have Sam learning to speak "Dean" on the brain, because the brother's usually take turns in all their lessons. :P

But yes, I do agree that this lack of communication is no where near ONLY Sam's fault, and I never meant to imply otherwise.

quickreaver
May. 7th, 2014 05:39 am (UTC)
Oh, don't mind me. It's late and I'm probably just getting nervous about what the next two episodes hold! (That, and I've not been very pleased by the past two years of SPN.)

It's not easy being a fan right now!
hells_half_acre
May. 7th, 2014 06:02 am (UTC)
No worries. I like to make sure that I don't accidentally come off as biased towards one brother, because I truly do love them both equally. So people interpreting my words as anything other than a reflection of that is a failure on my part to communicate effectively.

As for the show, when I recommend the show to people, I really do it by showrunner. I feel like the show, at this point, is really three separate shows. There's Supernatural (Kripke), Supernatural II (Gamble), and now we're in Supernatural III (Carver). And just like with any franchise, you're going to have people who love the original but none of the sequels, and people who like III better than II or vice versa. But you can't really treat them as all one "movie".

I feel like there's a lot of loyalty in the Supernatural fandom, but I think that just like any franchise, you're allowed to say stuff like, for example, "You know, I liked the original three Star Wars movies, but I think that's it. I think my Star Wars adventure will end there, and I'll just ignore anything else that came after." And you can still consider yourself a fan of Star Wars and the possibilities that that universe creates.

This is all very long winded way to say, "I understand how you feel." :P
ramblin_rosie
May. 7th, 2014 05:43 am (UTC)
The writers fabricating drama is my problem, in a nutshell, with the entire season and a good chunk of the last. The story didn't have to go this way. There have to be at least a dozen ways to get the boys' relationship to a healthier* place without painting them into a corner and making one or both of them come off as world-class jerks for... reacting the only way they know how. "Nobody's right if everybody's wrong," after all.
On the Deanspeak/Samspeak front, though, I do think Dean needs to learn Samspeak, and they're both under the misapprehension that they do know each other's means of communication because they've known each other all their lives. As Garth said to Sam last season, they're both talking, but neither is hearing what the other means. But that kind of brings us back to the problem of the writers fabricating drama, because whatever happened to the place of understanding the boys had reached at the end of Season 5--or heck, even at the end of Season 8?

*I think the damage they've both suffered goes too deep for full mental/emotional/relational health to be possible, but that's meta for another day.
quickreaver
May. 7th, 2014 05:47 am (UTC)
YOU SAID IT!

Hey, maybe we should get Garth in for relationship counseling with those two knuckleheads more often? They seem to begrudgingly listen to him.
crownroyal_51
May. 7th, 2014 05:45 pm (UTC)
Totally agree with you! I'm so sick of the writers thinking that the only way to have drama in the show is to have the boys at odds with each other. We've been down that road too many times already. I thought after 8x23 we'd have them united once and for all. I'd never thought we'd get them at the worst point in their relationship for season 9. It's frustrating.

I'm also getting sick of the lack of continuity with the established lore. How come we no longer get black angel wings after an angel is killed? This started in season 8. And now Crowley's kid gets to stick around without potentially upsetting the time/space continuum? There are certain writers who just seem to toss everything out the window when they write. Last nights' are on the list.

I was kind of disappointed that Abaddon was killed off last night. She had such potential to be a really evil "big bag" but I think she was vastly underused this entire season. I really miss the scary "big bad" - YED, Lilith, Lucifer. I think they've gotten a little to comic book like in the past few seasons.

I'm curious to see how the next couple of episodes will go. I hope that we can have this angel stuff finished once and for all. I'm getting a little bored with angels fighting angels. I'd like to see the show get back to its roots for season 10 which could very well be the last.
hells_half_acre
May. 7th, 2014 06:05 pm (UTC)
Just a point, we DO still get the black angel wings when the angels die. They're harder to see these days because the wings are broken and tattered, so they're not as impressive looking as they once were. But you can see them - if you go back to Meta-Fiction you can see them, anyway.

I think you might have to play the negative/positive game where you name something positive for every negative point you bring up... it sounds like you're having a hard time enjoying things, and I find the negative/positive game helps.
crownroyal_51
May. 7th, 2014 08:29 pm (UTC)
Sorry I really didn't mean to come off as a negative nelly here. Honest. I should have reread my post and realized that it seemed a bit negative. I do enjoy the show and it's still my favorite on TV. Thanks for pointing out the angel wing thing. I'll have to look more closely when I rewatch and in the future.

Positives - Sam still looks out for Dean and is worried about him no matter what. He's worried about this whole Mark of Cain thing and doesn't want it to destroy his brother. And Dean's first instinct is to still "keep Sammy" safe.

Gadreel might be able to be swayed to the good side. I don't think he entirely trusts Metatron. He could be the secret weapon the boys need to stop Gadreel.
hells_half_acre
May. 7th, 2014 09:20 pm (UTC)
No worries.

Yeah, the angel wings are really hard to see this year - they kind of just end up looking like scuff marks. Plus, since all the angel deaths we've seen have been mass killings, they tend to be hidden by other bodies and overlapped, so you can't really see that it's the shapes of broken wings.

Gadreel might be able to be swayed to the good side. I don't think he entirely trusts Metatron. He could be the secret weapon the boys need to stop Gadreel.

This is what I'm hoping. I really like Gadreel - I mean, yes, he killed Kevin, and I suppose no one will ever forgive him for that... but I still like him for some reason and feel kind of bad for the naive misguided dude. Maybe he can bring Kevin back somehow so that everyone will forgive him and then he can stay on the show... a girl can dream anyway.
ramblin_rosie
May. 7th, 2014 06:59 pm (UTC)
That's the thing--I think Gavin WILL be upsetting space-time somehow. His death was too central to Bobby getting out of his deal, and Sam made too big a point of insisting that he go back, for there not to be ramifications. Whether we'll see any of them before the end of the season, I don't know, but I am confident that they're coming.
raloria
May. 7th, 2014 04:48 am (UTC)
I don't think Gavin being left alive in present day is such a big deal because he was going to die on the ship anyway. As for how this effects Bobby using him in S6 well...to quote from Capt. Janeway from Star Trek: Voyager..."The future's the past, the past is the future. It all gives me a headache!" LOL But I still somehow suspect leaving Gavin alive is going to be a problem in the future. He caught onto the future pretty fast and he already showed he's about as conniving as his old man.

As for the boys not killing Crowley on the spot, I think that came down to Dean losing control with the blade on Abaddon and then Sam talking him into letting it go again. They obviously weren't prepared with any other weapons to kill Crowley and I don't think Sam wanted Dean touching the Blade again, just to kill the King Of Hell. Plus, I think there's this underlying mutual respect they have with Crowley, much in the same way he has with them. The devil you know, right? Literally. That's not to erase the evil he's done, but they know him, they've worked with him to achieve goals in the past and he's used them to his own end as well. And we still have to find out what his plans for Dean are...remember the whole "We're besties and he's ready" thing? There's still something going on there that hasn't been addressed yet.

I was surprised they killed Abaddon so soon. I was sure that wasn't going to happen until the finale. Still, Dean killing her was pretty hot and badass. He's got some serious power now. Which is both cool and frightening. :)
hells_half_acre
May. 7th, 2014 04:59 am (UTC)
As for how this effects Bobby using him in S6 well...to quote from Capt. Janeway from Star Trek: Voyager..."The future's the past, the past is the future. It all gives me a headache!" LOL But I still somehow suspect leaving Gavin alive is going to be a problem in the future. He caught onto the future pretty fast and he already showed he's about as conniving as his old man.

Hmm, maybe, but I think I'm going to have to disagree with you. And, unless they inevitably close that loop - or address its ramifications in some significant way, I think I'm going to be a bit pissed off.

They obviously weren't prepared with any other weapons to kill Crowley and I don't think Sam wanted Dean touching the Blade again, just to kill the King Of Hell.

Sam would have had the demon knife on him. He had just been in the basement looking for demons... maybe I'd feel better about the decision if there had been a previous episode where we saw that the knife didn't work on Crowley.

And we still have to find out what his plans for Dean are...remember the whole "We're besties and he's ready" thing? There's still something going on there that hasn't been addressed yet.

True, but that's why the WRITERS kept him alive, there still has to be a logic for why Sam and Dean would keep him alive.

But "the devil you know" IS a fairly good reason, I guess... perhaps they're hoping Crowley will be useful when going against Metatron? That's a good possibility.

I was surprised they killed Abaddon so soon. I was sure that wasn't going to happen until the finale. Still, Dean killing her was pretty hot and badass. He's got some serious power now. Which is both cool and frightening. :)

Agreed!
frozen_delight
May. 7th, 2014 06:49 am (UTC)
I'm a bit sorry that Abaddon's already dead because the demon wars always held a bit more potential for me than the ones between the angels - but now the angel war's the truly big thing for the rest of the season, I fear.

I'm not sorry that Crowley's still alive, because he's half the reason I watch the show, but WHY? Can't wrap my head around it. The last time the boys met Crowley, Sam was all like "Dean, look, we've got the blade and there's Crowley, so let's kill him." - unfortunately while Crowley was standing right behind him, no handcuffs, nothing. This time, Crowley's paralysed by a devil's trap bullet and wouldn't be able to do anything about it. But Sam doesn't even think of it until Crowley's conveniently had the time to disappear. WHAT THE HELL? And even if Sam didn't want Dean to use the Blade again, couldn't he just have taken Ruby's knife instead? Because I'm refusing to believe that the boys walk around, hunting demons, and don't carry the knife with them.

Your summary of Dean and Sam's conversation at the end is hilariously to the point. It's funny in a sad sort of way that Dean really seems to believe himself when he talks about how the Blade made him feel calm and sure he'd be able to kill Abaddon, while he still felt the need to send Sam somewhere else. At first I thought that he felt ashamed of what the Blade does to him and didn't want Sam to see it, but then the usual "Look out for Sammy" argument seemed to win through. I don't know, the way Dean said it didn't really make a lot of sense to me and then Sam started talking and that made even less sense... Sometimes, I think I initially get what the boys are thinking and what they're trying to say, but then they actually start talking and their lines are so very muddled that it all gets quite confusing - to the point where they hopelessly confuse each other. And me. :)

I'm very concerned about where Dean is headed. Also, now that he's killed Abaddon, is he going to fulfill his promise to Cain and kill him next?!?
I'd completely forgotten about that promise, so thanks for reminding me of it. Maybe that's the reason Dean says "No" at the end?
hells_half_acre
May. 7th, 2014 03:30 pm (UTC)
But Sam doesn't even think of it until Crowley's conveniently had the time to disappear.

Not only that, but Sam outright told Crowley "we not killing you" which I just find super bizarre.

Sometimes, I think I initially get what the boys are thinking and what they're trying to say, but then they actually start talking and their lines are so very muddled that it all gets quite confusing - to the point where they hopelessly confuse each other. And me. :)

I feel the same way. :P

I'd completely forgotten about that promise, so thanks for reminding me of it. Maybe that's the reason Dean says "No" at the end?

Perhaps! Hopefully it's a plot point that they haven't forgotten about... though, with the angel war heating up, hopefully it doesn't slip through the cracks.
borgmama1of5
May. 7th, 2014 07:37 am (UTC)
I actually liked that Abaddon was killed unexpectedly--I have a fondness for unexpected deaths that aren't telegraphed.

But why they left Crowley alive?????

DUMB.

The whole bit with Gavin has me scratching my head...why should I care about Crowley's kid? I mean, they gave that relationship a LOT of screen time. Does that mean Gavin is an important part of next season??? I don't see how...

DEAN AND BLADE! OMG...

The parallel with Sam and demon blood is riveting...

And my final thoughts? Can someone PLEASE get the two of them to COMMUNICATE with each other????

(Sorry for shouting...show was preempted in Chicago and I didn't get to see it until 1:30 am and I'm a little sleep-deprived at the moment...)
hells_half_acre
May. 7th, 2014 03:27 pm (UTC)
I finally got to watch the scenes I missed before I conked out last night, and yeah, I can see what you mean about Gavin and Crowley's relationship getting a lot of screen time. Makes me wonder...

So, yeah, I'm interested to see where this all goes too. And we both agree on all points. Also, I am now exhausted because I stayed up until ridiculous-o'clock... so we have that in common too. :P
thursdaysisters
May. 7th, 2014 06:15 pm (UTC)
so, yeah, keep Sam safe and don't care about yourself, because you don't have to worry about upsetting Sam by dying because Sam doesn't care. Or, at least, that's what I think Dean's frame of mind is at the moment...that's in no way what I think the situation ACTUALLY is.

Oh but it'd be a great excuse for Dean to monologue grimly and then for Sam to cut him off after five seconds and say "STFU with your death wish homeslice, we's a TEAM which means I get to hold down the baddie while you do the stabbing"
hells_half_acre
May. 7th, 2014 06:33 pm (UTC)
Hehheheh... yes, yes, perfect.
risenshine22
May. 7th, 2014 08:05 pm (UTC)
Late to the comment party here ;)

I think the episodes was really funny - and because Dean kills Abaddon and goes darkside, the mole, betraying, lies and torture - I sometimes thought I shouldn't find it that hilarious.
Maybe it was just me, but I totally expected Abaddon to turn up at the graveyard - I think when you see Crowley on the phone she is nowhere to be seen, but I could be mistaken.
I watch Dr. Who but actually I don't like time travel stories, they hurt my brain.
As for Amelia - my profound belief is that someone was messing with Sam - that's the only explanation I will ever accept!
hells_half_acre
May. 7th, 2014 09:17 pm (UTC)
As for Amelia - my profound belief is that someone was messing with Sam - that's the only explanation I will ever accept!

That or a psychotic break. :P
shadowsong26
May. 8th, 2014 02:48 am (UTC)
(In two parts because I rambled at great length I'm sorry)

This episode was...I liked it a lot when I was watching it last night, but when I think back on it, I'm finding a lot more flaws than I noticed then, if that makes sense? It was still an enjoyable episode and a decent opener for the inevitable soul-crushing finale trilogy.

One of the things that did jump out at me right away was the 1723 Scotland thing. Which is...see, I'd convinced myself (with zero canon proof other than a throwaway joke about Mesopotamia, so I know it was just wishful thinking) that Crowley's 'true name' as learned in Weekend at Bobby's was an elaborate lie so Crowley would have cover to get clear if/when the denim-wrapped nightmares got too close to him? And I really liked this theory because it made so much more sense in terms of Crowley's later climb up the power ladder in Hell, but now it is more or less conclusively proven that nope, that was his original identity. Though the truth of that puts an interesting twist on Meg's resistance to his regime, especially since she's implied to be really freaking old. Definitely older than Crowley. And now I'm imagining Meg as Queen of Hell, which may well have been her endgame.

THAT BEING SAID I kind of adore Gavin now. Though I kind of wonder who his friend that Abaddon killed was...also that he seemed to be Catholic in 1723 Scotland which, given what I know of the history of that period is...not exactly safe? Interesting to think about, since that would definitely inform his personality, especially since it seems like Gavin's going to be sticking around for a while.

Totally with you on the gossipy angels in the bar being amazing/adorable.

Also with you on the 'no one has known torture like the torture you'll be tortured with' or whatever line being awesome.

The interrogation of the braggy angel was AMAZING. Like...I loved it so much, the way Sam very carefully took control and steered it somewhere less potentially dangerous for Dean, mentally speaking, and they totally owned that braggy angel and yes. It just made me happy.

I pretty much adored all the scenes with Gavin. Even though I'm not 100% sure I like the fact that he killed my pet theory of Crowley's elaborate identity lie, I like Gavin. And Gavin's accent. And his ridiculous romance-novel-cover shirt. And how he handles the man-out-of-time situation. And. Um. Wow. I got attached fast to a character whose concept I don't even like...

You have a point about the Juliet-hound gag being poorly executed.

Also, everything with Gadreel was pretty much a beautifully giftwrapped EVERYTHING I EVER WANTED. Except for an explicit reference to the thread between letting the snake into Eden--letting Lucifer out of the cage--letting Leviathan into the world, and the followup redemptive arcs, etc., though I do think Cas is catching onto those parallels. And I absolutely get why Sam can't at this point, and I like that, as much as I want that parallel explored. And basically I love Gadreel being both evil and honorable and essentially Evil Helo (I have no idea if you saw the 2003 BSG show but there's no other way I can explain what I mean, I'm sorry) so basically all I ever wanted and I'm just...yes. Basically, everything with Cas and Gadreel interacting was perfect and made me sooooo pleased.
shadowsong26
May. 8th, 2014 02:49 am (UTC)
(here's the rest sorry I talk too much)

I also like the fact that someone finally touched on the fact that Sam is, unfortunately, actually a really valuable intelligence resource. And I like the way Cas asking him played out, in ways that I can't really articulate--in that he was asking about Gadreel's personality/motivations rather than what memories of Gadreel's actual actions Sam may or may not be able to access (since Crowley did say that Sam should remember everything, even if it's buried deep).

Something I noticed, and I'm not sure if it's an actual thing or if it'll be followed up on, but...Dean seemed incapable of speech when he was holding the blade? Like, when he walked in and saw Crowley had been shot, he just gestured. I don't know if that was because he knew it was a trap and didn't want to give away more to Abaddon than he absolutely had to. But I liked the way it played out, that he didn't speak at all when holding the blade.

I kind of think the Gavin thing is a setup for s10 plots, which is why it's left hanging now. Or at least I hope it is. This season has not really had a good track record with maintaining/following up on it's plots. Still waiting on Jerome and the crowding of the Veil from Captives...

And I think that's part of my issue with the way Abaddon's death went. In terms of when it happened in the season, it's actually more or less where I expected? I kind of figured they'd have to wrap up the demonic civil war plot (though I don't quite get the internal justification for Crowley's survival, whatever) before they wrapped up the angels plot, since angels outrank demons on the power scale. But it did feel too fast and anticlimactic, even when I watched it. And I think that's a function of the show not following up on its plots this season as well as it should.

Which also bugged me about the throwaway line about Malachi's death. Not because Malachi actually did anything interesting other than serve as a foil for Bartholomew (who was boring, even speaking as someone who really enjoys angel politics) and capture Cas for a while, but...see, the thing is, Malachi as a concept is really interesting. Because he survived all the upheaval in Heaven that's happened over the last few years, and managed to not only stay free but get to a significant position of leadership, all while known as 'The Anarchist.' And this from a species where Disobedience is their Murder One, as Anna put it back in s4...IDK, I feel like he's far more of a wasted plot than Bartholomew ever was.

Tangent aside, I agree with you that seeing Abaddon hoisted with her own petard would've been nice.
hells_half_acre
May. 8th, 2014 03:59 am (UTC)
And I like the way Cas asking him played out, in ways that I can't really articulate--in that he was asking about Gadreel's personality/motivations rather than what memories of Gadreel's actual actions...

Agreed! That was really cool to see. And it was really cool that Castiel is smart enough to realize that Sam is his best source of information for Gadreel's character. I really like it when Castiel is smart and kind of a bamf on this show... not to be complainy, but I find often when they use him on the funnier episode, they tend to make him seem like an idiot and it annoys me.

Something I noticed, and I'm not sure if it's an actual thing or if it'll be followed up on, but...Dean seemed incapable of speech when he was holding the blade?

Interesting. I can't say I noticed at the time - it'll be interesting to see whether that's a coincidence or actually a side-effect of the murder-rage.

I kind of think the Gavin thing is a setup for s10 plots, which is why it's left hanging now. Or at least I hope it is. This season has not really had a good track record with maintaining/following up on it's plots. Still waiting on Jerome and the crowding of the Veil from Captives...

I can't even remember who Jerome was, so I'm going to have to agree with you. Also, I agree about Gavin perhaps being a set-up for a S10 plot.

But it did feel too fast and anticlimactic, even when I watched it. And I think that's a function of the show not following up on its plots this season as well as it should.

Agreed, yet again.

...Malachi as a concept is really interesting. Because he survived all the upheaval in Heaven that's happened over the last few years, and managed to not only stay free but get to a significant position of leadership, all while known as 'The Anarchist.' And this from a species where Disobedience is their Murder One, as Anna put it back in s4...IDK, I feel like he's far more of a wasted plot than Bartholomew ever was.

Yes, I was saying this to someone else in these comments... but I kind of feel like the showrunners post-Kripke run through their plots too fast. They're too eager to get to the next "big thing" that they don't flesh out and explore the plot that they have. They're too eager to set up for the next twist, or the next big bad, that they neglect to explore the characters and unique stresses and ramifications of the situations that they're currently in. I think it's the main reason why the post-Kripke show just isn't connecting with the fans as universally as the S1-5 arc did. Because, YES, there were season-long arcs, but they were the DETAILS of the S1-S5 arc. In S3, it was all about Dean going to hell, but we also got introduced to Ruby... and that's it, that's the WHOLE season. In S4, it was about Sam's dark path and the introduction of angels, AND THAT'S IT... and EVERY EPISODE was dedicated to exploring SOME aspect of those things. These days,they've got 5 different things going on at once, and yet still they do these one off episodes that DON'T TIE IN AT ALL... and so the plot and the characters never really have room to SIT with the weight of the situation. It's always movement, movement, movement, but the empathy and engagement of the audience is actually better engaged through allowing the time for them to see the characters more completely, to understand their motivations and histories better...anyway,that's just my humble opinion.




shadowsong26
May. 8th, 2014 04:12 am (UTC)
I can't even remember who Jerome was, so I'm going to have to agree with you.

Jerome was the third prisoner, in with Linda and the politician's mistress. They got his name from the ghost and then there was...absolutely no reference on whether or not they let him out, or if he was even still alive, or anything.

And I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head with the running-through-plots-too-fast thing. I think it's been particularly evident this season, at least to me, either because they have the two major arc plots and they keep changing which aspects of them we're supposed to focus on--like, with the angels, are we supposed to focus on the fighting between the earthbound factions? Are we supposed to ignore them for now because if we take out Metatron it's Not Our Problem anymore? And then you add in the Crowley and Abaddon stuff on top of that...you're absolutely right, that Kripke did a much better job of pacing things, and tying in his MotW episodes.
hells_half_acre
May. 8th, 2014 04:25 am (UTC)
Oh yeah! I remember Jerome now. :P

And yes, exactly.

hells_half_acre
May. 8th, 2014 03:41 am (UTC)
I liked it a lot when I was watching it last night, but when I think back on it, I'm finding a lot more flaws than I noticed then, if that makes sense?

It makes perfect sense. Hence why I started my review with "I don't even know what my emotions are doing..."

I'd convinced myself[...]that Crowley's 'true name' as learned in Weekend at Bobby's was an elaborate lie so Crowley would have cover to get clear if/when the denim-wrapped nightmares got too close to him?

SAME!

hough the truth of that puts an interesting twist on Meg's resistance to his regime, especially since she's implied to be really freaking old. Definitely older than Crowley. And now I'm imagining Meg as Queen of Hell, which may well have been her endgame.

Ooo, this actually makes me feel better about having my headcanon squashed like a fly on the windshield. It DOES put an interesting spin on everything to find that Crowley's origins are so recent.

...also that he seemed to be Catholic in 1723 Scotland which, given what I know of the history of that period is...not exactly safe? Interesting to think about, since that would definitely inform his personality, especially since it seems like Gavin's going to be sticking around for a while.

Do protestants not cross themselves? I only ask, because even though (according to the Catholic church) I'm a protestant, I was actually raised Anglican, which is considered "small c catholic" and the high Anglican churches basically have services VERY similar to the Catholic churches and you have a LOT of bleed-over in practices.

That all aside, I didn't even really think of the implications of the religion. I don't think I'm well versed enough on Scottish history to know how much the religion mattered. I'm not sure if the writers are either - if it's a choice or an accident. Either way, it DOES bring up really interesting character points.

And I absolutely get why Sam can't at this point, and I like that, as much as I want that parallel explored. And basically I love Gadreel being both evil and honorable and essentially Evil Helo (I have no idea if you saw the 2003 BSG show but there's no other way I can explain what I mean, I'm sorry)

I didn't, but I think I understand what you mean anyway... and yeah, I think that's part of the reason why I like Gadreel's character so much... he's INTERESTING. I kind of want to explore him and how he views things. I want to watch him grow and learn and possibly change or not change... and I KNOW I should be less sympathetic and be mad at him for killing Kevin, but I kind of... don't want to be? :P

Basically, everything with Cas and Gadreel interacting was perfect and made me sooooo pleased.

Yes, I would like more of them interacting. :)
shadowsong26
May. 8th, 2014 04:07 am (UTC)
With regard to Gavin's apparent Catholicism--to be fair, most of what I've read about religious conflict in Scotland is from 50-100 years earlier, but I think the Scottish Kirk was still pretty Calvinist in this period? Which is about as anti-Catholic as you can get, so I'm pretty sure they don't cross themselves. (Like, the Scottish Episcopal Church was heavily regulated from the 1690s on, and Presbyterian government was much preferred) Granted, I was raised in a pretty non-religious household, so I don't know about if crossing himself is exclusively a Catholic thing, but I think it is, given how different the Kirk tried to be.

I KNOW I should be less sympathetic and be mad at him for killing Kevin, but I kind of... don't want to be?

I'm definitely with you there, though I don't know if I find him so sympathetic because his archetype is basically catnip for me and so I'm more forgiving than I should be. So it's nice to know someone else doesn't hate him, too ^^;;
hells_half_acre
May. 8th, 2014 04:19 am (UTC)
You are probably right about the Scottish religious thing. It's been EONS since I studies Scottish history and even then, I'm not sure that we covered the religious aspect that indepthly.

(Isn't indepth a word? I thought it was a word. Obviously, there are things that I just don't know in this life - and that's Scottish religious history and whether or not indepth is a word).

I'm definitely with you there, though I don't know if I find him so sympathetic because his archetype is basically catnip for me and so I'm more forgiving than I should be. So it's nice to know someone else doesn't hate him, too ^^;;

Yay! Friends! :)
pushistyj_koshk
May. 8th, 2014 09:30 pm (UTC)
I loved this episode altogether! Maybe it's just my standards getting lower because of... you know... last weeks' episode, the one you make us say nice things about :) I did love everything about it, I don't even care about the continuity errors - that's how much I loved it. Best ep this season, srsly! :)

Edited at 2014-05-08 09:41 pm (UTC)
hells_half_acre
May. 9th, 2014 12:44 am (UTC)
Well that's good! :)
percysowner
May. 8th, 2014 09:57 pm (UTC)
I'm think we may have a closed loop with Gavin. He asked why Crowley sold his soul and was told it was for the extra three inches. In Weekend at Bobby's he told Bobby Crowley sold his soul for and extra 3 inches, which he didn't know until he came forward in time. So maybe he always came forward in time? Which says interesting things about free will, or may simply say that this is what happened in this timeline.

I'm not as sure that Dean actually sent Sam away to protect him. Poughkeepsie means something is wrong. It doesn't mean I'm alone here with Abaddon. It could just have easily have meant that Abaddon and her army are here on every floor in the house including the basement. Dean didn't know what the exact danger was. By not telling Sam, Sam was walking in blind and not expecting any demons except Crowley and a captured Abaddon. I think the Mark is making Dean want to go it alone, no matter how that affects Sam. I don't think he wants Sam hurt, but even more he doesn't want Sam interfering with his use of the Blade.

From an outside POV, Juliette looked like a scene that wasn't needed. From an in universe POV, Juliette was an alarm system for Crowley to know when someone got to the Blade. If Sam and Dean had tracked it down Juliette would have kept them from getting it without Crowley's help. As it turned out, Juliette being there gave Crowley a reason for Sam and Dean to contact him so he could use the code word. I do think Juliette was a way Crowley was keeping control of the situation.
hells_half_acre
May. 9th, 2014 12:49 am (UTC)
In Weekend at Bobby's he told Bobby Crowley sold his soul for and extra 3 inches, which he didn't know until he came forward in time. So maybe he always came forward in time? Which says interesting things about free will, or may simply say that this is what happened in this timeline.

Cool. I did think that might be an option - that Gavin doesn't get sent back in time NOW, but does get sent back in time later. It's been so long since I've seen Weekend and Bobby's, I wasn't sure about what clues it may have.

I think the Mark is making Dean want to go it alone, no matter how that affects Sam. I don't think he wants Sam hurt, but even more he doesn't want Sam interfering with his use of the Blade.

Also an option!

Juliette was an alarm system for Crowley to know when someone got to the Blade. If Sam and Dean had tracked it down Juliette would have kept them from getting it without Crowley's help. As it turned out, Juliette being there gave Crowley a reason for Sam and Dean to contact him so he could use the code word. I do think Juliette was a way Crowley was keeping control of the situation.

Yeah, but he didn't give the code word to Dean when they were in the crypt, he gave it to him when Dean called to tell him that they had successfully gotten the blade - which Dean would have done anyway, Juliette or no. So, I still think it was unnecessary - unless the ONLY reason it was there was to show what measures Crowley had taken to protect the blade, in which case, I still think it was an unnecessary point. But, that's just my opinion, and I'm certainly not the be all end all of critique. :P
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