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Quick Reaction: 8x08 Hunteri Heroici

Once again, I've had too much wine on a week night! This move to Wednesday really messes me up. Let's see what I can remember...



The intro death was cool. Not much else to say about it...your standard teaser death, I guess.

So, let's jump to the boys at the gas station! I'm guessing that this episode picks up almost immediately after the last one, seeing as how Dean is JUST asking Cas what he's going to do next. Or, I guess they dropped off the Trans with Garth first - who apparently has them in his safe-house-boat. Better not tell Benny! ;) I like how Sam is just like "I don't even ask anymore" and laughs...I like how they don't question Garth's out-of-the-box behaviour and equate it to incompetence...the dude's still alive and has proven that he's smart, so they just go with everything. I also love how Sam pulls the "Dean's here and he really wants to talk to you" with Mrs. Tran on the phone...me and my siblings used to do that with relatives who talked too much. :P

"What's the word, Cas?" "A shortened version of my name." Hehehehe...oh Cas. I do love how literal you are, even if after ~6 years, you should be getting the hang of it. Wow, Cas really has been part of the Winchester's lives for ~6 years...dude is hanging in there.

I think there were kind of traces of Crazy!Cas in this episode...sort of like the Cas of S5/6 and the Crazy!Cas melded somehow...or maybe I'm just saying that because Cas smiled so much and that's something we really only saw Crazy!Cas do.

I loved Cas deciding to be a hunter and finding them a job, and then when Dean makes him act like a human, trying to take the shotgun seat away from Sam, and Sam elbowing him out of the way with a "No!" hahaha... I also like Cas' theory that being a third wheel is a good thing because it adds stability and girth...or was it grip? Anyway, as someone who rode various sizes of tricycles until they were 10 years old, I can only agree. (I'm sure people would have made fun of me, if I had associated with people as a child, thankfully I did not.)

Of course, before I leave these scene, I have to talk about Dean's line about Cas "opening a B&B in Vermont" which we had to pause the show to laugh about - Dean is writing his own curtain-fic! Hahaha...then I remembered that I was pretty sure that was the premise of Newhart. In any case, we had a good laugh. Anyway, I expect 200 fics by next Tuesday. :P

The morgue - I do like how Cas just rattles off all information he can glean from the corpse but misses all the human elements to the guys' story...and then Dean calls him Sherlock, and really, he's if we're going by BBC Sherlock, he's not THAT far off. Though, BBC's Sherlock CAN approach things from the human angle too, it's just fanfic that things he can't. I'm getting off track.

I liked the police woman. She was awesome.

So, Dean and Sam prove that the job isn't as easy as Cas might think it is...and they all go to talk to the dead dude's wife. As Crosby, Stills, and Nash... oh show. I love the fact that the musician names are back, and that they seemingly had enough time to come up with IDs as a trio instead of a duo. :)

And then Cas tries his hand at "Bad Cop" and oh my goodness, but that was an awesome Columbo impersonation...especially for Cas. He even led with the whole "I don't want to bother you, I really don't..." and "I just have one question..." though usually that's said just as everyone thinks Columbo doesn't suspect anything and he's about to leave and they've gotten away with it... oh man, Columbo, my older sister loved watching that show.

I love the fact that the married couple were "monogamish" (as Dan Savage calls it)....and I love how Dean was like "awesomest wife ever!" and then the quick change of scene and the cars beeping when Dean responds to whatever Cas says about the case with "I don't give a BEEP" hehehehe.

Never look down, jumper dude, never look down.

Okay, so here we had to pause the show again, not because we were laughing too hard to hear the dialogue, but because we had to figure out where that roof-top was. It's downtown Vancouver, of course...and they CGI'd in a building! Actually, looking at google maps, they seem to have CGI'd in several buildings. But it's near the corner of Dunsmuir and Richards, looking South-West down Richards. You can tell because of the Cathedral (and Cathedral Square).
 
I like that Cop-lady actually called them...I also LOVE that she called Dean Scully - I forgot to mention that before. 

What's next?....oh, I guess it's around now that they start putting it together that it's cartoons. Did they show Cas Cartoons before or after the bank-job? And when was it that they were just chillin' in the hotel room? 

I can't remember. Let's just talk about the hotel room scene.... I like Cas' interpretation of the Coyote and Roadrunner...and the fact that he finds it hilarious. It makes me think that maybe his fondness for humans partially comes from finding them adorable and amusing...like kittens. It also reminded me of the movie The Believer, which, FYI is NOT hilarious...but, um, it has a similar theme to Cas' interpretation of the Coyote and the Roadrunner (and an ending that I found really cool.)

I'm also expecting fifty-billion fics about Cas watching Dean sleep. I do find it amusing that Dean and Sam were expecting Cas to get his own room (does the guy even have any money?)... it's especially amusing since in Party On, Garth, Dean and Sam just got a cot put in Garth's room. I was thinking that it wasn't actually realistic that Dean and Sam would force Cas to get his own room, because I know me and my siblings don't have any problem with sharing hotel beds when we have to cram a bunch of people into one room.... but then, none of my siblings are over 6'1''. At 6'5'', Sam would have to sleep diagonal across a bed, which would leave Dean sharing with Cas...and they're both around 6'1'' aren't they? Or is Cas 5'11''? I can't remember how tall Misha is now, which is kind of ridiculous because I just got into an argument about it the other day that involved pulling out my Con-photos to compare heights... anyway...um, not to feed the Destiel shippers, but technically, if you are platonic buddies with somebody, you really don't care if you have to share a bed with them. Or at least, I don't. I share beds with my best friend all the time when we travel, and we don't care...and we're even each other's preferred sex for romantic partners. The only time it got awkward was that one time that I accidentally washed every single piece of clothing I owned at once and I didn't have any pants to sleep in...and it was cold...and I spent the night unconsciously trying to cuddle my best friend for warmth much to his horror...THAT was awkward. But maybe two ~6' guys don't fit on a queen-sized bed together either, and THAT's why it would have been awkward...if Cas slept that is. But yeah, I really don't see the problem with Cas sitting in the corner while Sam and Dean sleep...besides the fact that Dean finds the idea of watching someone sleep "rapey." I wonder what he thinks Soulless!Sam did all those nights he wasn't sleeping...Dean has weird double-standards is all I'm saying.

I don't even know what I'm talking about anymore...

ANVIL. 

I love the cartoon stuff becoming more blatant... and the black-holes!  Did he paint them on, or bring them? It's just awesome. The dude crushed by the anvil is disgusting, but awesome.

I hope Sam got it on with that awesome Cop-lady when he went to go see the files...no, wait, what am I saying...I don't hope that, because then she might die. Also, she's too good for Sam. She can do much better. She's probably married to someone equally awesome already.

And Cas moved the anvil, which is just more disgusting - but I actually have thing for the strong-man superhero type. On Star Trek TNG, my favourite character was Data, partially because he had no emotions and was BFFs with my other favourite character (Geordi), but mainly because he was stronger than WORF. I mean, what's not to love? My loves went Data, Geordi, Worf. I think I shipped Data/Geordi before I even knew what shipping was.

God, I keep getting off track...I APOLOGIZE.

Let's talk about the serious conversation between Data and Geordi...I MEAN CAS AND DEAN. Damn it.

Dean thinks Cas should go back to heaven and check it out...and Cas is afraid to. And Cas kind of breaks my heart...he's reminding me a bit of The Doctor actually...with this immense guilt about destroying (or possibly destroying) his own people. Of course, the Doctor has the benefit of having a good reason to have done so (and the unspoken blessing of his mother), but Cas really just did it because he was mad with power at the time. Poor baby. I think part of the reason Cas is smiling so much is to try to hide the fact that he's absolutely terrified...which I think is more the reason why he stayed in purgatory rather than feeling like he needed to do penance (though that was a part of it too). I think Cas is absolutely terrified to face what he has wrought (which was also mostly the reason, I think, that he went 'crazy' in S7).

And speaking of crazy, when Cas said, "DEAN! No!" I swear to god, I heard him say my best friend's name and not Dean, and it flipped me the fuck out...my friend had to rewind and play it again for me, and then I heard the "Dean" really clearly, and I'm not sure if that made me feel better or even more insane. ANYWAY, OFF TOPIC AGAIN!

Yes, I AM going to talk about Sam in this quick reaction, I promise. (Ever notice that these quick reactions are NOT QUICK...I've already been typing for more than an hour.)

The retirement home is the key! So it's off to interview the old folks. The lady mistaking Cas for one of her husbands was adorable and kind of sweet. I also love Cas interrogating the cat... that ALSO reminds me of Doctor Who. "He says his name is Susan and he wants you to respect his life choices." (SORRY OFF TOPIC AGAIN).

Okay, let's talk about Sam and his flashbacks....

So, there's this theory floating around the interwebs that Amelia isn't real...and I never believed it, because we see her in non-flashback form in 8x01 and we know the DOG is real because Dean could smell it in the car...but DAMN IT, I'm starting to wonder if those people are right. I mean, the way Sam flashes back to her when the orderly guy talks about people retreating into dreamworlds when life is too much to handle? And the way the flashbacks are all fuzzy around the edges, and things people do in them remind Sam of Dean...or John...or are just a little too coincidental.... I really thought they were just going to pull a 500 Days of Summer on us and the relationship is real, but Sam is remembering/interpreting things as good, when in reality they were horrible...but now I'm just not sure anymore. Especially since Sam seems to know a little TOO MUCH about retreating into a dreamworld...but that doesn't change the fact that we DID see Amelia in 8x01 in non-flashback form, and there IS/WAS a dog.. I just...I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S REAL!!!

My friend pointed out that if Amelia is Sam's dreamworld, that doesn't make any sense, because it's hardly idyllic...but then I reminded her about how the last time Sam's brain broke, the manifestation of his crazy told him that his life "had to be a mess or else you wouldn't believe it was your life." So, yeah... WHAT DO YOU THINK!?!? Is she real?! Is she a figment of Sam's crushing despair?!

Part of me kind of wants to get my hopes up...I want to believe that when Cas was zapped to Purgatory, whatever he did to "shift" Sam's crazy undid itself and Sam got a face-full of his crazy back... I mean, why else would Cas suddenly be sane in purgatory? (Besides the idea that the insanity was a COMPLETE act and Cas could actually handle the crazy the whole time.) The thought that they just washed away Sam's mental problems so easily really annoyed me, and I guess I'd just like them to do something else with that...but, odds are that they won't, and I should not get my hopes up. So, yeah, I won't...I want to! But I won't.

I also find it really interesting that Sam tells Amelia's father that the Impala was "his Dad's"...while technically true, I think fandom (and Dean) really think about it as DEAN'S car. So, yeah, it's interesting that to Sam, even after all these years, it's still Dad's car and Dean just happens to drive it.

Turns out that one of John's old Hunting buddies is in the retirement home! Fred Jones...a psychokinetic dude. It really interests me that in Supernatural being psychic and apparently psychokinesis are acceptable abilities to have...that John was friends with both Missouri and Fred Jones, Fred being, apparently VERY powerful...yet, when Sam developed abilities, they were something all of them feared, and Dean thought of him as a freak (even if he never admitted it.) I guess there are these weird blurry lines between "natural" and "unnatural" that sometimes even hunters don't understand. Sam's abilities had to be kept on the down-low, though everyone was seemingly cool with Fred.

I also always love tidbits of pre-series stuff...like the fact that Fred Jones gave both Dean AND Sam their first beers before they were even in the double-digits. (My dad also gave me my first sip of beer when I was very young...it put me off it until I was practically 17, so it was actually a wise parenting move....same with coffee - which was given to me by my aunt. I STILL refuse to drink coffee, though I like coffee-flavoured chocolate....OFF TOPIC AGAIN. SORRY!)

I should say, as soon as we met Doctor Man, I KNEW he was our bad guy. Mainly because I was sitting there thinking "they always give way too much information to the authority figures/employees in places like this, like they don't believe that they could be the bad-guy...and they ALWAYS ARE.

Anyway, kicked out of the retirement home, yada yada.

When the cake exploded, I thought it was the lady exploding....I was glad it was just the cake.

Then it's off to rescue Fred and stop a bank robbery! (OFF TOPIC: I have been typing for so long that I now require a snack....just so you know that you are not the only one suffering for how often I've gone off topic. I really write these things stream-of-conscious style, without editing, so yeah, sometimes it leads to this.)

Oh, I nearly forgot - that orderly accomplice guy was REALLY lucky that Sam and Dean had an angel with them. Stomach wounds are apparently the worst gunshot wounds, because dying is slow and extremely painful. Jumping back a scene earlier, I should also say that I love the fact that Cas actually listened when the old lady told him that the nurse was wearing her diamonds.

So, Dean actually gets to go through a cartoon hole. Yay!

Meanwhile, Sam and Cas find Fred and Cas zaps them into Fred's mind in order to talk to him. That sequences was cool. I love the ways they find to do really really crazy stuff on Supernatural, but make it somehow believable and logical....and how they can have these really epic emotional speeches in the most bizarre circumstances and locations.

Sam's big speech about living in dreamworlds...I mean, is he just talking about believing a relationship can work when you hardly know a person and your in a horrible mess? Or is he talking about retreating from reality completely? I love how the speech also means something to Cas - that without knowing it, Sam's wisdom is actually helping Cas with his problems. I wonder though, if Cas wasn't distracted by his own problems, would he notice that maybe Sam might have problems? I really think someone should sit Sam down and REALLY ask him about the past year, rather than just dismissing it as Sam trying to get the normal life he always wanted.

Meanwhile, Dean is having a cartoon fight in the bank. They, of course, have to throw in the reasoning for the thief - the stealing from the kids who don't look after their parents thing. Fair enough. THE REST OF THIS SECTION GOES OFF TOPIC: I read an article today about a couple in Germany who have opened a pet retirement home...where they look after old and sick pets that people don't want anymore or can't handle and would normally put to sleep. Apparently everyone who drops off a pet promises to send money for their care, but only 20% actually do...so this couple spends 2,000 euros a month out of their own pockets to look after the remaining 80% of the animals. Of course, those are animals, not people, blah blah blah...but still, people are kind of shitty. (I say this, having wished to put animals to sleep myself...but arguably there's a quality of life issue and whatnot...I HAD REASONS OKAY! ...I also once wished on a wishbone that my grandmother would die, and that was purely about the quality of MY life...so yeah, like I said, people are kind of shitty and I AM PEOPLE! SO I WOULD KNOW! Seriously, I am a horrible person. I'm not joking.)

I really like the cartoon fight. Especially the mid-leap pauses with the "latin" names for the thief and the Hunterus Heroicus, just like in Roadrunner. I think they even used comic sans. :P

Anyway, Fred snaps out of it and gets his sanity back for a moment...and apparently Sam used to be a scrawny thing. Awww....ADORABLE SAMMY (in my head).

Fred kills Doctor Thief. Then he admits that there's nothing stopping him from going to Cloud Cuckoo Land again and he's kinda bummed about it, and Cas is like "I can do something about that but it will leave you as possibly a shell of your self" (does he take away his psychokinetic abilities?) and Fred is like "sounds like a plan. I'm a responsible superhero who will sacrifice myself for the good of mankind." And so Cas leaves him listening to Ode to Joy (good choice! I love that song. I used to know three versus of it in the original German when I was nine...and DAMN IT I NEED TO SHUT UP!)

Then Cas is all like "I am also going to be a responsible superhero, and I am going to face my mistakes and go to heav-"

And then Naomi zaps him to heaven and is like "Na-uh!" 

Speaking of Doctor Who...Naomi is kind of like the Silence, isn't she? Tell me, I'm not alone in thinking this, fellow Doctor Who watchers?!? Uh, for those who don't watch Doctor Who - the Silence are beings that you can see, and will tell you what to do, but as soon as you look away from them you forget that you ever saw them - but you remember their instructions and you HAVE to obey. So, they're are a VERY hard enemy to fight.  Guys, CAS SHOULD START WRITING ON HIS ARMS WHILE NAOMI IS TALKING TO HIM WITHOUT HER NOTICING!

The Winchesters have got to notice Cas blanking out eventually, right?! I mean...it's sort of odd behaviour. Somehow, I get the feeling that all three of them are so caught up in their own problems, that they are not noticing each other's.

Cas decides to spend a few days with Fred listening to Ode to Joy, I guess....or maybe they're going to go through more than one song. And then he doesn't know what he'll do. Translation: Cas will not be in the next episode, or possibly the one after that...but he'll pop back in eventually when the storyline requires him to.

I totally forgot at what point in the episode Dean told Cas that he got to ride shotgun because he earned it...was that at the end, and then Cas didn't go with them? Or was that somewhere in the middle? I know we never actually got to see it...I would have loved to see Sam sulking in the backseat while Cas got his "reward" of sitting next to Dean. If I were Sam, I'd make Dean sit in the back seat and I'd drive. "Dude, you do NOT have permission to give away my seat unless you are willing to give away yours." - that'd be my rule, anyway.

Am I done talking about this episode now? It's been OVER TWO HOURS! 



If I forgot anything (lord help us all) tell me in comments and I'll talk about them with you tomorrow. I really do apologize for the length of this thing.

NEXT WEEK: The mid-season finale! NOOooooooooooo....

Comments

( 34 comments — Leave a comment )
claudiapriscus
Nov. 29th, 2012 09:27 am (UTC)
Hmm, I obviously need to rewatch, I missed a lot (It was on while I was working).

Also, Amanda Tapping's role is still weirding me out. She's just so strongly reminding me of Evil!Replica-Carter I end up feeling very confused.

Plus, I know I should probably be worried about what kind of scheme she's up to, but....eh. It's kind of funny. I like the Trans as characters, but I keep forgetting what the overall season plot is (and this is despite the fact that I just marathoned it recently), and I'm not....well, it's a little hard to get invested in the whole "get rid of all the demons" thing because seriously, that's like John Crichton going home or Mulder figuring out what exactly is up with that whole conspiracy thing. It's a total tease, they're never going to really go there (without a lot of caveats that keep the status pretty quo ante). But this doesn't really bother me, because I'd be happy to just have the show meander around with MOTWs and exploring where the characters are and their changing relationships?
hells_half_acre
Nov. 29th, 2012 09:34 am (UTC)
I personally kind of think that that's the brilliant thing about their myth-arc this year - the fact that none of us really care about it, or expect it to actually happen. The myth-arc is usually the A-plot, with the character stuff the B-plot and the MOTW the C-plot...and usually we're ALL ABOUT THE A-plot and we get really sick of episodes that only focus on the B- and C- plots. This year, I feel like they've actually made the B-plot(s) so good that we don't even care about the A-plot...which gives them ample time to build it at a steady pace without annoying us with how seldom it seems to change/escalate...so by the time the B-plot intersects with the A-plot, the A-plot might actually take us by surprise. If that makes any sense.

I am so goddamn wordy tonight. I have no idea what's wrong with me.
claudiapriscus
Nov. 29th, 2012 09:51 am (UTC)
That actually makes a ton of sense. So the wordiness is working for you?

The one possible flaw I can see in that plan (with the switching of the investment on the plots) is that by removing emphasis from the a-plot (which is totally brilliant for the reasons you said) *if* they stick to their usual and go with angstplosions and doom and gloom and great sacrifice for a narrow, hard-won and Pyrrhic victory.. it's possible that all the angst and drama will seem...IDK, even more brutally pointless than normal, Sticking the boys with a background failure-is-the-only-option kind of quest almost kind of necessitates a kinder (if still fail-tastic) wrap-up, I think. (Like maybe, drat, we failed, but we were glorious in the attempt, go us sort of ending) If that makes sense. I've got a killer headache.
hells_half_acre
Nov. 29th, 2012 10:02 am (UTC)
No, that makes sense. (Sorry to hear about the headache). I think they'll have to ramp up the A-plot before the Pyrrhic victory in order for it to work like usual...so, yeah, there IS a danger of them failing to do that and it seeming like even more of a pointless tragedy. We'll just have to keep our fingers crossed that they actually do ramp up the A-plot and avoid that potential pitfall.
claudiapriscus
Nov. 29th, 2012 06:39 pm (UTC)
Hehe, it's kinda funny how we all know there's no chance they'll just go for a slightly softer season ending.
percysowner
Nov. 29th, 2012 02:33 pm (UTC)
Although it is interesting that hunters seem to accept psychics, it totally makes me wonder why Sam was freaking out over his powers in seasons one and two. I mean he settled down a bit after meeting Missouri, but got more worried when he shifted the piece of furniture with his mind. If they were good friends with a guy who could shift stuff with his mind, shouldn't that be less remarkable?

And if Cas can take Sam's crazy and heal the gunshot wound, why can't he heal Fred Jone's mind so that Fred remains competent? Why just change the hallucination as it were.

I'm not a fan of Looney Tunes humor, so I ended up nitpicking this episode.
hells_half_acre
Nov. 29th, 2012 09:59 pm (UTC)
Wedge Antilles in the comments below talks about this a little bit - about how they think that Sam freaked out because his powers seemed to come all of a sudden in the middle of his life, rather than being born with them - and how they seemed to be tied in with his mother's death and his own life falling apart.

Minds are tricky things, I guess. I think Cas DID take away his powers, but for some reason he could nothing about the natural onset of dementia. *shrug* Or, it's just a plot hole. :P
ellecc
Nov. 29th, 2012 02:56 pm (UTC)
I really love the idea that Sam in some way dreamed Amelia, either partially or fully. And for those of us who like that idea, this episode definitely gave us a leg to stand on. Huzzah!

I was a little upset about Sammy calling the Impala John's, also, but I actually think it wasn't so much a slight to Dean as it was Sam not wanting to mention Dean at all, maybe not even think about him. He was obviously very hesitant to discuss his brother with Amelia's extremely observant father, and in the end, when he did mention Dean, it was a big deal for him. So I think he was avoiding rather than anything else. Even Sam has to know the Impala is Dean's!

If Amelia IS fake, I wonder if Don being alive is a manifestation of Sam's abandonment issues (btw, how close to "Dean" is "Don," hmmmmmmmm????). Jess died, John died, Dean died, Bobby died, Dean vanished, etc etc--the kid's gotta have serious problems with people leaving him. Your friend mentioned Sam's dream world not being very idyllic and I agree with you: he's gonna dream up crazy bad shit, probably, because that's how his brain works. That's how the Winchester brain works. So of course he has this great girlfriend who gets him and whom he calls "baby" and etc etc etc and of course she's going to eventually leave him, too, right? Because her husband isn't really dead. While Dean is dead. That sounds like a good Sam-brain-concoction to me!

And does Don's reappearance explain why Sam left Amelia in the middle of the night that first night and she didn't follow him? I can't tell when the dinner with the dad happened. Do you have a sense of the timeline?

As for Dean, I was so impressed when he made Cas talk to him in the hotel. Anti-caring-and-sharing Dean has grown up so much in the past forty-nine nine seven years!

Edited at 2012-11-29 02:58 pm (UTC)
hells_half_acre
Nov. 29th, 2012 09:54 pm (UTC)
He was obviously very hesitant to discuss his brother with Amelia's extremely observant father, and in the end, when he did mention Dean, it was a big deal for him. So I think he was avoiding rather than anything else. Even Sam has to know the Impala is Dean's!

Yes, I think you might be right. He did seem REALLY hesitant to talk about Dean - and that was even the case with Amelia. It was only when he had to explain that he didn't pity her that he finally talked about him. So, he was probably even more hesitant to talk about Dean around her father - a dude who obviously was hostile to everything about Sam.

Heck, even in the story I wrote about Sam at Stanford, I had Sam not talking about Dean because it was too painful for him - and Dean wasn't even dead then!

Jess died, John died, Dean died, Bobby died, Dean vanished, etc etc--the kid's gotta have serious problems with people leaving him.

I think there's something to this too - back in whatever episode that was this year, when Sam was driving to rescue Dean and he was flipping the f*ck out...it was very Mystery-Spot... I think Sam has major issues around the fact that everyone he loves either leaves him or is killed. And I know he associates that with Hunting, because in 8x01, when they find Kevin, Sam's first question is "So Kevin's going to die too now" or something along those lines... like, ANY friend of theirs is going to end up dead or gone.

And does Don's reappearance explain why Sam left Amelia in the middle of the night that first night and she didn't follow him? I can't tell when the dinner with the dad happened. Do you have a sense of the timeline?

Unfortunately, I have very little sense of the timeline when it comes to Sam and Amelia. But I'm sure that question will be answered in the next few flashbacks we see of them (totally assuming that we'll see more). Seeing as how they just got a place together, things are a bit sticky - plus, we don't know what condition Don is in...so they could vary well stay together for a bit longer.

As for Dean, I was so impressed when he made Cas talk to him in the hotel. Anti-caring-and-sharing Dean has grown up so much in the past forty-nine nine seven years!

Yeah, I'm actually really impressed with Dean. It seems that he actually learned his lesson from S6, and while he might not be sharing about his OWN issues - I'm really impressed and proud of him for learning that he has to engage Cas about CAS's issues if he wants Cas to be happy and healthy.
dairygirl
Nov. 29th, 2012 03:07 pm (UTC)
I really enjoyed this episode and it's the first time in a long time I was entertained, loved the inside jokes rife in the episode (and was not interrupted by a phone call). Maybe it's not a mistake to keep watching the show?

Regarding Sam in a dreamworld, I recall in an earlier episode that Sam did an internet look up on Amelia. Would a figment be on the internet with a driver's license??
hells_half_acre
Nov. 29th, 2012 09:42 pm (UTC)
Maybe it's not a mistake to keep watching the show?

Hopefully not! I had the same conundrum last year when I found myself not really enjoying the show anymore...but I'm glad I stuck it out, because this year is kind of rockin' for me.

Regarding Sam in a dreamworld, I recall in an earlier episode that Sam did an internet look up on Amelia. Would a figment be on the internet with a driver's license??

*headdesk* Oh yeah... so, yes, she definitely exists. I still have to wonder if what we're seeing really happened or not though. It could be that he met a vet-lady, and concocted a dreamworld around her. But, it could also just be that they're pulling a 500 Days of Summer on us and they did indeed have a relationship, but it was far more tumultuous.
katsheswims
Nov. 29th, 2012 05:14 pm (UTC)
"It really interests me that in Supernatural being psychic and apparently psychokinesis are acceptable abilities to have...that John was friends with both Missouri and Fred Jones, Fred being, apparently VERY powerful...yet, when Sam developed abilities, they were something all of them feared, and Dean thought of him as a freak (even if he never admitted it.)" I had this same thought--it actually made it inconsistent for me. It was an interesting idea, but it didn't mesh with the past reactions of Sam and Dean to Sam having powers(S1/S2).

As for the asking Cas to get another room--I think the boys were just wondering when he was going to leave because he usually doesn't stick around consistently. I think some guys are more resistant to sharing their bed with other guys--but in Sam and Dean's case it is a height thing and I would imagine probably related to their PTSD/trauma not letting them rest easy in the same bed.
hells_half_acre
Nov. 29th, 2012 09:39 pm (UTC)
I had this same thought--it actually made it inconsistent for me. It was an interesting idea, but it didn't mesh with the past reactions of Sam and Dean to Sam having powers(S1/S2).

Indeed. The only thing that I can figure is that there's some how a difference with being born with a gift and developing it later on... plus, it didn't bode well that they were meeting people with the same/similar inexplicable gifts that were killing people.

but in Sam and Dean's case it is a height thing and I would imagine probably related to their PTSD/trauma not letting them rest easy in the same bed.

Very true. Good point.
Wedge Antilles
Nov. 29th, 2012 09:53 pm (UTC)
Firstly, I loved everything about Fred's character. I love that he was named after Fred from Scooby-Doo. I love that he has Jean Grey's insanely powerful universe bending power. I love that it's M*A*S*H's Mike Farrell. I love even more that this super-human with powers exceeding those of most gods love's nothing more than cartoons. I would love to have seen this character in his prime.

Secondly, I didn't really think it was that weird that Fred and John were friends. Let's start by comparing him to Missouri. Hunters probably don't have a problem with psychics like her because her powers are completely harmless, she can read minds, sense things about people's life and feel ghost. Her powers could not be dangerous. In regard to Sam freaking out when he had already known Fred, I think Sam was upset about his life being turned upside down (as anyone would) and the fact that his powers were unnatural and tied in with his mother's death. As far as we know Fred and Missouri were born with their powers and I'm sure they freaked too when they realized they had the shinning.

I don't think we've really seen hunters other than John and Bobby use psychics and would have became friends with anyone who could help him find YED. It's important to remember that John, while flawed, was not a complete bastard. A lot of other hunters are (Gordon, Roy, Walt.)It seems some hunters are just focused on killing the unnatural out of fear while others like Bobby and John actually want to help people. Plus Fred would have been middle aged by the time him and John met. He would have had plenty of time to endear himself to the hunter community if indeed he did had friends other than John. And by all accounts he was a pretty cool dude so I wouldn't be that hard to imagine.
hells_half_acre
Nov. 29th, 2012 10:03 pm (UTC)
Ah, Scooby-Doo! I was wondering where the name came from. Thanks!

I think you are right about Fred and John being friends. Also, it could just be that Fred knew who to hide his gifts from and who to reveal them to - he was psychic after all. The fact that Sam is always questioning kills and not wanting to kill people who do no harm - well, that character trait had to have come from somewhere, so I'm sure that John was at least partially the same way. I know when they first met Max and Andy, the boys argued about whether they had to kill them, because technically they were human, but yet they were killing people (or were thought to be killing people.)

So, yeah, basically, I agree.

Also, I too think it was really awesome that Fred was played by Mike Farrell. :)
jennytork
Nov. 29th, 2012 10:01 pm (UTC)
personally, I think the Winchesters freaked out so much about Sam's powers because they were informed about them by a demon -- and CAUSED by a demon. Not natural, like Missouri's and Fred's.

So to them, Sam's powers were evil because they were caused by an evil thing. And to John, that meant that his youngest son was evil as well. And that must have KILLED him inside....
hells_half_acre
Nov. 29th, 2012 10:17 pm (UTC)
But they weren't informed about Sam's powers by a demon, nor did they know that they were CAUSED by a demon until well after they started freaking out about them.

They knew that the "special children" were targeted by the demon, but they didn't know if they were targeted because they were "special" or if they were "special" because they had been targeted. It's only in 2x21 that Sam finds out about being fed Demon Blood.

Now, of course, John knew before then - but John actually doesn't seem to outwardly freak out about Sam's powers as much as Sam and Dean do. He gets mad that they didn't tell him, but that's about it. That being said, he must already know (or possibly has known for a long time) that the demon did something to his son, and has plans for him, and obviously, John worries that Sam might turn evil - hence his last instructions to Dean. So, I'm sure it DID kill him inside, because he obviously loved Sam very very much.

So, my guess is that they freaked out about the powers because they were late-onset and probably every other psychic was born with the powers...thus making Sam's powers somewhat unnatural...and then coupled with the fact that they had SOMETHING to do with their mother's death...yeah, I guess that's enough to freak out about. :P
jennytork
Nov. 30th, 2012 12:18 am (UTC)
Aaaah, I see what happened.

I was mixing headcanon with canon canon again.

In my headcanon, John learns about Sam's powers from a demon when Sam was about 12 and freaks and starts treating Sam different, less like a son and more like a soldier/thing. That's why he tells Dean to save him or kill him.

So in canon, perhaps they wigged because it wasn't 'normal' for Sam or, like you said, late-onset.

Sorry for the confusion!

percysowner
Nov. 30th, 2012 12:19 am (UTC)
Now, of course, John knew before then - but John actually doesn't seem to outwardly freak out about Sam's powers as much as Sam and Dean do. He gets mad that they didn't tell him, but that's about it. That being said, he must already know (or possibly has known for a long time) that the demon did something to his son, and has plans for him, and obviously, John worries that Sam might turn evil - hence his last instructions to Dean. So, I'm sure it DID kill him inside, because he obviously loved Sam very very much.

I'm honestly not sure if John really knew or not. I know John honestly believed he knew everything, but since he never told anyone what he had figured out, he could have been completely wrong and the YED played him. I mean really, I know John was a need to know type of guy, but how hard is it to say to Sam, "Don't drink demon blood, ever,"?
hells_half_acre
Nov. 30th, 2012 12:24 am (UTC)
Oh, well I certainly don't think John knew that Sam could drink more demon blood and grow stronger - or that it was an important part of the "going darkside" process. I think John just knew that Sam had been FED demon blood (or changed SOMEHOW) by the demon as a 6 month old and that he was therefore a tool for the darkside.

I really don't think that John knew about EVERYTHING. I think he knew only as much as Sam and Dean found out in S1 and S2, and nothing of what came after.
borgmama1of5
Nov. 30th, 2012 12:15 am (UTC)
Re: is Amelia a dream question--I wondered why Sam was looking her records up on the internet in an earlier episode. And "There was a girl...and then there wasn't" from 8.01...And my mind jumped to, what if Sam is remembering these flashbacks but isn't sure if they really happened and he's trying to figure out if his time with Amelia really happened?

Amelia's dad's familiarity was driving me nuts until you pointed out he was Jerry from 1.04!

To me the case felt like filler to unravelling Sam's backstory. I hope the reveal is worthy of the lead-up!
hells_half_acre
Nov. 30th, 2012 12:19 am (UTC)
Haha, that wasn't me that pointed out that he was Jerry from 1.04. I think that was Val? Someone else, anyway. But he is!

Yeah, I think Amelia is some sort of combination of real and not-real, as you say...like, she must actually exist, because Sam can look her up on the internet and we saw her in non-flashback form in 8x01, but there's still this dreamlike weird too-coincidental-to-be-real quality to a lot of the flashbacks.

I hope the reveal with Amelia is worthy of the lead-up too. I'm not sure the reveal with Cas was.

And yes, the case was definitely filler to unravelling Sam's backstory - but, I think, also to getting a grasp of where Cas is mentally at the moment.
sylvia_locust
Dec. 1st, 2012 02:59 pm (UTC)
I just re-watched 8.01 last night with a friend who's trying to catch up, and I noticed that the flashbacks in that episode (where he hits the dog and goes to the clinic) are clear, with none of the weird fuzzy filters that most of the Amelia flashbacks have. It might mean that some of the memories are real and some are false, or planted, or whatever?
hells_half_acre
Dec. 1st, 2012 07:28 pm (UTC)
Yes, that's what I'm starting to think too...that we're seeing a weird mix of real and not real. That Amelia has to exist in order for him to be able to look her up on the internet, and leave her in 8x01, and have there actually be a dog...but then at the same time, not exist...or not exist as he's remembering it anyway.

It's VERY interesting, and I'm really hoping they're doing something cool and will tell us what it is shortly! ;)
ashkiryn
Dec. 1st, 2012 09:30 pm (UTC)
Can I just say that I'm ridiculously proud of Dean for actually getting up, moving to sit across from Cas, and then purposefully engaging him in a talk about his feelings? Just...OMIGOD WHAT WHAT WHAT. MATURITY IS CARRYING OVER FROM THE LAST EPISODE??? (when he and Sam actually managed to have a conversation like adults) AW DEAN YOU'RE FINALLY GROWING UP (EMOTIONALLY)!!!! Also, this gives me hope that Dean is soon going to be able to sit Sam down and have a mature talk with him about his year and such forth. And even though DEAN, THAT'S SAM'S SEAT, ONLY HE SHOULD GIVE PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO SIT THERE, but the INTENT behind it...YAY WE ARE LEARNING AND GROWING UP Y'ALL.

(Also, it's really kind of sad that I regard these as such monumental moments. Oh, Winchesters.)

I really hope that not only does someone eventually question Cas's spacing out, but also Sam's, because...really Sam. It's actually kind of worrying.
hells_half_acre
Dec. 1st, 2012 09:56 pm (UTC)
I AGREE! As I've said elsewhere, I think Dean really did learn from S6 about how Cas needs to be engaged with on a more mature level and that someone needs to take the time to actually try to listen to what he is saying. And yeah, it's just - actual maturity and character growth all around, because Sam and Dean are also dealing with each other on a much more mature level. Yay!

And I agree about Sam spacing out too! Haha, I rewatched the episode in order to timeline it, and I realized that no one is going to notice Cas spacing out if Sam is also spacing out all the time - Dean is just going to be like "weird, I guess there's just a spacing out bug going around - I hope I don't catch it!" :P

I'm wondering what our mid-season finale cliffhangers going to be...if it'll be about Benny, or if maybe it'll be about Dean finally asking Sam about his possibly dream-world year.
marlowe78
Dec. 1st, 2012 10:36 pm (UTC)
Hee hee, this was one of your more rambly posts about an ep! Made me grin :-)

I wonder what he thinks Soulless!Sam did all those nights he wasn't sleeping...Dean has weird double-standards is all I'm saying.

Hmm, think actually knowing that someone is sitting there, watching you is a lot different from hearing about it later. And maybe Dean was and is used to Sam being up and about around him, since they'd kinda shared rooms since forever. Could be that.
Sharing a bed though... when I was in the US with three fifth of my family, my brothers (pretty darn tall - 6,5 and 6,4) didn't fit into a queen-size bed together. And some guys are a lot more touchy about their "personal space" and being touched in a maybe-non-manly-way than others, as I've found out. Might be connected to the testosterone-level or their upbringing or whatever...

which I think is more the reason why he stayed in purgatory rather than feeling like he needed to do penance

Good point, and one of the reasons why Cas stole his way back into my heart! Keep going, Castiel, you might make it all the way up to Bobby for me!
I had problems with the "last-minute-save-button" they had while Cas was with the Winchesters and not (yet) completely over the top. So yeah... that gave me a lot of "just get him killed, already"-feelings towards him.
Now, he's welcome back! yeah, I'm that flexible :-D

I just...I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S REAL!!!

Hmm, that might be the point? I'm still pretty sure she's real, but his memory of her is wonky. Or maybe he just wanted and craved her so much to be real that it's just now slowly, very slowly creeping up on him that he (and her?) have had the wrong reasons to stay together? hmmm...

I actually think she is a real person - he did check up on her in one episode, saying "not stalking, just concerned", so she has to be at least a real blood-and-bone-person. I'm not so sure he's not seeing their lives as too ideal - that picnic-scene springs to mind - when maybe in reality it was just sex and fighting (don't know, just guessing)

The thought that they just washed away Sam's mental problems so easily really annoyed me,

Yeah... well, welcome to my inner despair since about s4 concerning Dean ;-) Just fair that Sam has the same quick-fix that his brother seems to have, or I'd be REALLY pissed :-D

So, yeah, it's interesting that to Sam, even after all these years, it's still Dad's car and Dean just happens to drive it

Found that interesting, though I reckoned it was because he already had mentioned John and maybekinda wanted to create points for John (having failed with the "ha, my dad was a soldier, you were - that is something to bond over!")
Also, if he then mentioned Dean, it might've led to questions about him, and he didn't want that, then. I think it was then still (of course) a VERY touchy subject.

Sam's abilities had to be kept on the down-low, though everyone was seemingly cool with Fred.

Hmm... handwaving? Because that seemed weird for me as well. Interesting, but not very story-consistent. Maybe (and I'm pulling straws here) because Sam's "abilities" didn't come when he was a kid but when he was already grown up, and in the world of psychics and such, you get your abilities at least with puberty? (which still would've led to Dean rather mocking Sam for being a late bloomer instead of being afraid...) *waves hand*



(I hate character-limits!)
marlowe78
Dec. 1st, 2012 10:37 pm (UTC)

I really think someone should sit Sam down and REALLY ask him about the past year, rather than just dismissing it as Sam trying to get the normal life he always wanted.

Hm, yeah. Maybe Sam wants to be asked? But then again, he's got a mouth, if he really didn't want people (Dean) thinking he "left him to die for a girl", he could just open his mouth and say something, right? Explain why, instead of taking the abuse about it and getting irritated.

I'm not saying you're wrong - you're very right! But I just don't see any of the persons involved really sitting down talking about shit... and I don't really think Dean's all through with his problems either. (And I actually want more of reallyscarybloddthirsty!Dean...) Maybe they'll get to it, Winchester-style: slowly and painfully.

hey, of course, have to throw in the reasoning for the thief

Well, his reason sounded fine, but for that to really fly as a good excuse, that retirement-home should have looked a lot better than it did. Because stealing stuff from the bad bad kids who left their parents is NO explanation for stuffing your own pockets with it and not giving it to the retirement-home. also: I never heard about that pet-retirement-home! O_o


The Winchesters have got to notice Cas blanking out eventually, right?! I mean...it's sort of odd behaviour.


Considering they do that themselves, it's pretty much normal that he would do it - so how should they notice? :-D


I totally forgot at what point in the episode Dean told Cas that he got to ride shotgun because he earned it


Right before Cas got zapped to Naomi, when he wanted to say "no, I have to be somewhere else".

Yes, mid-season already! Hell, that is so SOOON!!!!


I enjoyed this episode a lot. Loved the black holes, and that police-woman. She's probably happily married with another cop - they barely see each other because of work, but that's also why they're still not divorced after 26 years. *nods*


hells_half_acre
Dec. 1st, 2012 10:57 pm (UTC)
Hm, yeah. Maybe Sam wants to be asked? But then again, he's got a mouth, if he really didn't want people (Dean) thinking he "left him to die for a girl", he could just open his mouth and say something, right? Explain why, instead of taking the abuse about it and getting irritated.

True. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what's actually going on. Amelia probably does exist, and Sam DID stop hunting, so it's not like Dean's necessarily wrong anyway. I just think there's something funky going on.

Because stealing stuff from the bad bad kids who left their parents is NO explanation for stuffing your own pockets with it and not giving it to the retirement-home. also: I never heard about that pet-retirement-home! O_o

Very true! No sympathy for the thief then (not that I had any anyway). The pet-retirement home is in Berlin and one of the dudes who runs it is called Helmut, and that's really all I can remember about it. :P

Considering they do that themselves, it's pretty much normal that he would do it - so how should they notice?

Haha, very true...especially Sam. He and Cas need to form an "I blank-out mid-conversation" club. :P

She's probably happily married with another cop - they barely see each other because of work, but that's also why they're still not divorced after 26 years. *nods*

Headcanon accepted! I loved her.

hells_half_acre
Dec. 1st, 2012 10:53 pm (UTC)
And some guys are a lot more touchy about their "personal space" and being touched in a maybe-non-manly-way than others, as I've found out. Might be connected to the testosterone-level or their upbringing or whatever...

True. My family was all cool with it - but we're cool with just about anything. We're very laid-back people. We're also, for the most part, all under 6' tall - so space isn't as much of an issue.

I had problems with the "last-minute-save-button" they had while Cas was with the Winchesters and not (yet) completely over the top. So yeah... that gave me a lot of "just get him killed, already"-feelings towards him.
Now, he's welcome back! yeah, I'm that flexible :-D


Haha, sounds like me.

I actually think she is a real person - he did check up on her in one episode, saying "not stalking, just concerned", so she has to be at least a real blood-and-bone-person. I'm not so sure he's not seeing their lives as too ideal - that picnic-scene springs to mind - when maybe in reality it was just sex and fighting (don't know, just guessing)

Yes, I'm thinking similarly...that we're seeing a mixture of reality and fantasy/mis-remembering.

Yeah... well, welcome to my inner despair since about s4 concerning Dean ;-) Just fair that Sam has the same quick-fix that his brother seems to have, or I'd be REALLY pissed :-D

To me, Dean's S4 issues weren't as crapily handled as Sam's S7 issues...mainly because A)they weren't ever built up to be as severe, and B)they were much more subtle and actually never got quick-fixed (in my opinion) because Dean still has them. Dean's never been the same since S3. But again, that's just my opinion. I think it's one thing to somewhat ignore the issues completely (as arguably they did with Dean) and another thing altogether to be like "THIS DUDE IS CRAZY AND CAN'T SURVIVE AND THE SOUL CANNOT BE REPAIRED - OH EXCEPT MAGIC ALL FIXED!" IMO anyway.

Also, if he then mentioned Dean, it might've led to questions about him, and he didn't want that, then. I think it was then still (of course) a VERY touchy subject.

Yeah, someone else pointed that out too - that it could just be that Sam was trying to avoid talking about Dean because it was too painful. Which makes perfect sense, because that's how I wrote him in the pre-series Stanford fic that I wrote - and Dean wasn't even dead then.

Hmm... handwaving? Because that seemed weird for me as well. Interesting, but not very story-consistent. Maybe (and I'm pulling straws here) because Sam's "abilities" didn't come when he was a kid but when he was already grown up, and in the world of psychics and such, you get your abilities at least with puberty? (which still would've led to Dean rather mocking Sam for being a late bloomer instead of being afraid...) *waves hand*

Yes, I believe this is the explanation that I'm going to go with *waves hand*
marlowe78
Dec. 1st, 2012 11:49 pm (UTC)
To me, Dean's S4 issues weren't as crapily handled as Sam's S7 issues...mainly because A)they weren't ever built up to be as severe, and B)they were much more subtle and actually never got quick-fixed (in my opinion) because Dean still has them. Dean's never been the same since S3. But again, that's just my opinion. I think it's one thing to somewhat ignore the issues completely (as arguably they did with Dean) and another thing altogether to be like "THIS DUDE IS CRAZY AND CAN'T SURVIVE AND THE SOUL CANNOT BE REPAIRED - OH EXCEPT MAGIC ALL FIXED!" IMO anyway.

Yeah, and that whole difference of POV is what sometimes causes such a big rift between "Sam-girls" and "Dean-girls" - because either of them have a valid point when it comes to the dropping or quick-fixing of their favourite character and see the other as the one who got a) more screen-time for his issues, b) a better quick-fix or c) more development of his problems over time.

Each one gets really protective when one "side" says "but my boy got it worse!" because from the other side's point, it's simply not true.

I've come to the conclusion that sometimes, authors just forget to put it in, actors forget they could put it in themselves (facial things, not sentences necessarily) and in general, you cannot keep everyone happy.

I agree, Dean's issues are still there - and I think they still lurk under his many walls to maybe come out one day. But we seldom get a glimpse of that. Seems that for Dean, the quick-fix is that he talks to Sam about it.

Sam (for me) at least gets his crazy-episodes, giving some focus to it where for Dean it (seems to be) is just mentioned in passing.

So actually having an episode that focuses on that and quick-fixes it might be a step up.

BUT: I wouldn't want a quick-fix either!

I'm guessing I have to just add my own head-canon concerning inner-Winchesters until it's overruled by the writers, and then adjust it accordingly. I admit, it's not ideal, but I really don't want to play the "my boy is worse off"-game with anyone.

It's just, I think, a matter of perspective whether one boy actually is worse off. If it came to "real", both of them would be complete nut-heads with crazy rolling eyes, hiding themselves with saltguns in the forests ;-)

Hope I don't come across as ... annoying? It's just interesting to me how different people see this show, depending on their favourite Winchester. I bet people who have no clue about us ("what the heck is a fandom?" *goes to wikipedia* *frowns*) live in a very happy world where Dean and Sam are just awesome and show is entertaining and they really just enjoy themselves.

*sigh*

Life could be so simple...
hells_half_acre
Dec. 2nd, 2012 12:49 am (UTC)
No, I understand completely.

The things is, I don't actually think that Sam "got it worse" or that Dean "got it worse"... I think they both "got it different" :P If that makes any sense.

I think the problems with Sam's storylines and the problems with Dean's storylines are different problems around similar issues - so, no one is happy, but they see how the other brother's storyline got treated and they think "well, why couldn't we have something like that?!"

I guess it's a "the grass is always greener" thing.

I like the fact that Dean's issues actually irrevocably changed his character...even though there was no episode devoted to them. Meanwhile, although I'm super thrilled that Sam had episodes devoted to his issues, I'm super annoyed at the way they were "quick-fixed."

I mean, I LIKE the fact that there was never an episode devoted to solving Dean's "issues" because to me that makes them more realistic...because instead of being quick-fixed, they were something that Dean just had to learn to live with, and like I said, in doing so, he's become a different person. But, I realize that the fact that I like that Dean's issues were never the focus of an episode puts me at odds with a lot of the Dean!girls out there.

But yeah, playing the game of "who had it better/worse" is futile, because it's like having one person who dropped their piece of cake on the pavement outside and one person who dropped their piece of pie on the carpet inside both arguing about whose dessert disaster is worse - as though having more sympathy will actually change the fact that no one is eating any dessert. :P

I also really don't like the whole division of Sam!girls and Dean!girls. Mainly, because I'm never sure where I fall. A lot of people see me as a Sam!girl, I think (maybe because I really like Jared?), but I actually identify way more with Dean. I identify with Dean and I love Sam because Dean loves Sam. And for the most part, the only people I get really super annoyed with when it comes to this show are the fans who insist that one brother is superior to the other (or that the show should just be about Cas). :P
marlowe78
Dec. 2nd, 2012 12:22 pm (UTC)
Hmmm... you have a good point, with the change in Dean because of his issues. I think, though, that Sam did change as well, but you're right, it's not as obvious.
Then again, when he does, many fans seem to get annoyed that the writers wrote him so out of character.

I wouldn't mind Sam being still a little crazy - maybe it could be his shattered mind that dreamed up Amelia? I sure hope it's not some supernatural "thingy" that made him dream that, because Sam deserves to have some plain-old human-based problems.

And for the most part, the only people I get really super annoyed with when it comes to this show are the fans who insist that one brother is superior to the other

Ugh, that makes me annoyed as well. I wouldn't even try to hide that I'm more Dean-oriented, but that shouldn't mean that you cannot relate AT ALL to the other brother. And I truly love Dean's character, but I'd be the last who'd call him "superior" :-D They are just different, is all.

(or that the show should just be about Cas)
Hee... well, I think there was a show once that could relate to those people better? Michael Landon played an angel then... we should suggest that to them. ;-)
hells_half_acre
Dec. 2nd, 2012 09:26 pm (UTC)
I think, though, that Sam did change as well, but you're right, it's not as obvious.

It's true. I find Jared is much more subtle in his acting than Jensen (and that's not a criticism to either one of them!) so maybe I just have to pay closer attention to what he's doing, and I won't feel as slighted by the writers. :P

Then again, when he does, many fans seem to get annoyed that the writers wrote him so out of character.

Ugh, I hate it when fans confuse character-growth/change with OOCness. To me, the fact that Dean and Sam's personalities change over time is part of what makes this show compelling. If they had stayed stagnant in their S1 personalities, I would have stopped watching in S2. :P

I wouldn't mind Sam being still a little crazy - maybe it could be his shattered mind that dreamed up Amelia? I sure hope it's not some supernatural "thingy" that made him dream that, because Sam deserves to have some plain-old human-based problems.

Yeah, of course, the problem is that this show is called "Supernatural" so I think the writers tend to give the boys supernatural problems more often than not...but we'll see. I would love it if Sam just plain had a nervous breakdown under the weight of his grief.

Hee... well, I think there was a show once that could relate to those people better? Michael Landon played an angel then... we should suggest that to them. ;-)

Haha, only if we can travel back in time and get Misha to star in the show rather than Michael Landon. :P I think the majority of Cas-girls are really Misha-girls extending that love to the character as well. But, I could be wrong!
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